There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
From: George Marques de Jesus
1b. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
1c. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
From: James Kane
1d. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
From: Jyri Lehtinen
1e. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
1f. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
From: Allison Swenson
2a. More Online Moten Dictionary
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
2b. Re: More Online Moten Dictionary
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
Posted by: "George Marques de Jesus" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:23 pm ((PDT))
I personally use FLEx (short for FieldWorks Language Explorer), which can
be found at: http://fieldworks.sil.org/flex
It's a software for field working to help linguistic documentation. I find
it totally complete for my needs (and sometimes think it's an overkill).
2013/3/15 James Kane <[email protected]>
> Hi all
>
> I am newish to conlanging and so far my attempts are all recorded in
> either (very) unorganised paper form or on Microsoft Excel which isn't
> the best way to store a lexicon. Most of the grammars of the languages
> exist mostly in my head.
>
> I was wondering what people's methods were for documenting their
> conlangs; what specific programs or software do you find very useful?
> How do you structure dictionary entries or grammar points? Is there a
> link to a resource that could help in this aspect?
>
> For people with conscripts, how do you store those on the computer? I
> have a fair computer and internet literacy.
>
> Many thanks
>
>
> James
>
--
::. George Marques .::
::. http://georgemarques.com.br
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:24 am ((PDT))
On 15 March 2013 07:10, James Kane <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I am newish to conlanging and so far my attempts are all recorded in
> either (very) unorganised paper form or on Microsoft Excel which isn't
> the best way to store a lexicon. Most of the grammars of the languages
> exist mostly in my head.
>
> I was wondering what people's methods were for documenting their
> conlangs; what specific programs or software do you find very useful?
> How do you structure dictionary entries or grammar points? Is there a
> link to a resource that could help in this aspect?
>
>
For dictionary work, I use Toolbox (http://www-01.sil.org/computing/toolbox/),
which is basically FLEx's less good-looking father. I use it instead of
FLEx because it is good enough for my needs, and the Linux version (which
is actually a Windows version that runs very well under Wine) works also
perfectly as a portable version on Windows, which is necessary for me as my
laptop is from work and thus locked down.
The one disadvantage of Toolbox compared to FLEx is that its database
format allows for a lot of freedom for the user, and you need a good
discipline to keep your entries consistent. FLEx does much more consistency
checking itself. Also, its import and export facilities pale compared to
FLEx. Its main advantage is that it's probably simpler to use. It doesn't
do that much, but it does it well.
I don't have any specific tool for my grammar. Basically, I just publish
grammar points on my blog (see the link in my signature). They are based on
hand-written notes and what's in my head :) .
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
Posted by: "James Kane" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:15 am ((PDT))
Thanks for the replies.
I have decided to download both Toolbox and FLEx as while FLEx sounds
like the better program, I am very impressed with the look of the
Moten dictionary. I will try out both and see which one I prefer.
James
On 3/15/13, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 15 March 2013 07:10, James Kane <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I am newish to conlanging and so far my attempts are all recorded in
>> either (very) unorganised paper form or on Microsoft Excel which isn't
>> the best way to store a lexicon. Most of the grammars of the languages
>> exist mostly in my head.
>>
>> I was wondering what people's methods were for documenting their
>> conlangs; what specific programs or software do you find very useful?
>> How do you structure dictionary entries or grammar points? Is there a
>> link to a resource that could help in this aspect?
>>
>>
> For dictionary work, I use Toolbox
> (http://www-01.sil.org/computing/toolbox/),
> which is basically FLEx's less good-looking father. I use it instead of
> FLEx because it is good enough for my needs, and the Linux version (which
> is actually a Windows version that runs very well under Wine) works also
> perfectly as a portable version on Windows, which is necessary for me as my
> laptop is from work and thus locked down.
> The one disadvantage of Toolbox compared to FLEx is that its database
> format allows for a lot of freedom for the user, and you need a good
> discipline to keep your entries consistent. FLEx does much more consistency
> checking itself. Also, its import and export facilities pale compared to
> FLEx. Its main advantage is that it's probably simpler to use. It doesn't
> do that much, but it does it well.
>
> I don't have any specific tool for my grammar. Basically, I just publish
> grammar points on my blog (see the link in my signature). They are based on
> hand-written notes and what's in my head :) .
> --
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
>
> http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
>
--
(This is my signature.)
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
Posted by: "Jyri Lehtinen" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:45 am ((PDT))
I'm also just reactivated in conlanging myself so much of my documentation
is handwritten on loose leaf and notebooks. I've also started to clean up
the documentation and write it on my computer. Those documents I've
compiled using xelatex. LaTeX often looks a bit daunting for new users but
it creates beautiful output once you get used to it. Then again, it's just
a way to format your output and you can get the same structuring of your
contents using any of your favourite word processors. For me LaTeX is a
natural choice since I already use it extensively in my work.
I don't have so much lexicon at the moment that I would need a special tool
for it. I might try the Linux versions of the SIL software or just take the
chance to learn to do some database work myself. One desired goal would be
to have the ability to create reverse word lists (natlang > conlang) from a
database that has word items in the conlang and more thorough descriptions
of them in the natlang (several possible translations, example phrases
etc.). And of course, being able to export into LaTeX format to get good
publishable output would be nice.
-Jyri
2013/3/15 James Kane <[email protected]>
> Hi all
>
> I am newish to conlanging and so far my attempts are all recorded in
> either (very) unorganised paper form or on Microsoft Excel which isn't
> the best way to store a lexicon. Most of the grammars of the languages
> exist mostly in my head.
>
> I was wondering what people's methods were for documenting their
> conlangs; what specific programs or software do you find very useful?
> How do you structure dictionary entries or grammar points? Is there a
> link to a resource that could help in this aspect?
>
> For people with conscripts, how do you store those on the computer? I
> have a fair computer and internet literacy.
>
> Many thanks
>
>
> James
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:17 am ((PDT))
I'm using msword. The guide I'm going through can be found at
www.fridaynightlinguisti cs.org/languagecreation
I had some books I bought, but my old laptop crashed, and I may not be able
to get them baxck. I'll know once I get a terrabite and the old data can be
transferred. At least I'll have a better understanding of the process. I
have some linguistics books I'm using, in audio format. Are you sighted?
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of James Kane
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
Thanks for the replies.
I have decided to download both Toolbox and FLEx as while FLEx sounds
like the better program, I am very impressed with the look of the
Moten dictionary. I will try out both and see which one I prefer.
James
On 3/15/13, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 15 March 2013 07:10, James Kane <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I am newish to conlanging and so far my attempts are all recorded in
>> either (very) unorganised paper form or on Microsoft Excel which isn't
>> the best way to store a lexicon. Most of the grammars of the languages
>> exist mostly in my head.
>>
>> I was wondering what people's methods were for documenting their
>> conlangs; what specific programs or software do you find very useful?
>> How do you structure dictionary entries or grammar points? Is there a
>> link to a resource that could help in this aspect?
>>
>>
> For dictionary work, I use Toolbox
> (http://www-01.sil.org/computing/toolbox/),
> which is basically FLEx's less good-looking father. I use it instead of
> FLEx because it is good enough for my needs, and the Linux version (which
> is actually a Windows version that runs very well under Wine) works also
> perfectly as a portable version on Windows, which is necessary for me as
my
> laptop is from work and thus locked down.
> The one disadvantage of Toolbox compared to FLEx is that its database
> format allows for a lot of freedom for the user, and you need a good
> discipline to keep your entries consistent. FLEx does much more
consistency
> checking itself. Also, its import and export facilities pale compared to
> FLEx. Its main advantage is that it's probably simpler to use. It doesn't
> do that much, but it does it well.
>
> I don't have any specific tool for my grammar. Basically, I just publish
> grammar points on my blog (see the link in my signature). They are based
on
> hand-written notes and what's in my head :) .
> --
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
>
> http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
>
--
(This is my signature.)
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
Posted by: "Allison Swenson" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:47 am ((PDT))
For my conscript, I used FontStruct (http://fontstruct.com) to create the
script, with each key matching a character in the script, so when I want to
type in my conscript, I just switch to that font. It works because it's a
relatively small alphabet (not a syllabary or logography) and most of the
characters match their English equivalents (although vowels muddled the
issue somewhat--for example, y ended up standing in for a vowel while the
consonant y was moved to j).
If you had an alphabet significantly larger than the English one or a
syllabary/logography, unfortunately I can't help you there!
--Allison
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm using msword. The guide I'm going through can be found at
> www.fridaynightlinguisti cs.org/languagecreation
>
> I had some books I bought, but my old laptop crashed, and I may not be able
> to get them baxck. I'll know once I get a terrabite and the old data can be
> transferred. At least I'll have a better understanding of the process. I
> have some linguistics books I'm using, in audio format. Are you sighted?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of James Kane
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:16 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Methods or software for creating grammars and dictionaries
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> I have decided to download both Toolbox and FLEx as while FLEx sounds
> like the better program, I am very impressed with the look of the
> Moten dictionary. I will try out both and see which one I prefer.
>
>
> James
>
> On 3/15/13, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 15 March 2013 07:10, James Kane <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all
> >>
> >> I am newish to conlanging and so far my attempts are all recorded in
> >> either (very) unorganised paper form or on Microsoft Excel which isn't
> >> the best way to store a lexicon. Most of the grammars of the languages
> >> exist mostly in my head.
> >>
> >> I was wondering what people's methods were for documenting their
> >> conlangs; what specific programs or software do you find very useful?
> >> How do you structure dictionary entries or grammar points? Is there a
> >> link to a resource that could help in this aspect?
> >>
> >>
> > For dictionary work, I use Toolbox
> > (http://www-01.sil.org/computing/toolbox/),
> > which is basically FLEx's less good-looking father. I use it instead of
> > FLEx because it is good enough for my needs, and the Linux version (which
> > is actually a Windows version that runs very well under Wine) works also
> > perfectly as a portable version on Windows, which is necessary for me as
> my
> > laptop is from work and thus locked down.
> > The one disadvantage of Toolbox compared to FLEx is that its database
> > format allows for a lot of freedom for the user, and you need a good
> > discipline to keep your entries consistent. FLEx does much more
> consistency
> > checking itself. Also, its import and export facilities pale compared to
> > FLEx. Its main advantage is that it's probably simpler to use. It doesn't
> > do that much, but it does it well.
> >
> > I don't have any specific tool for my grammar. Basically, I just publish
> > grammar points on my blog (see the link in my signature). They are based
> on
> > hand-written notes and what's in my head :) .
> > --
> > Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
> >
> > http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
> >
>
>
> --
> (This is my signature.)
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. More Online Moten Dictionary
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:42 am ((PDT))
Hi everyone,
I took people's comments to heart and updated my Moten - English - Moten
dictionary. It's still available at the same place:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4Ba74aEwr57bVQ2V2QtbnJNSk0/edit?usp=sharing
The main differences between this version and the previous one are:
- A cover page (it's not much, but it serves :P);
- Different fonts, which should be more readable. In particular, in the
font I've chosen for the Moten lexemes the pipe | extends way below the
baseline, which should make it easier to recognise compared to l;
- A pronunciation guide and a list of abbreviations before the dictionary
proper, as well as a description of the dictionary's entries.
I also cleaned up some entries, corrected others, and added new words,
included the indispensable verb _ipsenaj_ (stem _psena_), which means "to
swallow, to ingest (for purposes other than nutrition)", but also "to
smoke" (in the sense of smoking cigarettes or joints. If you said you were
smoking fish using this verb, a Moten speaker would get a very weird mental
image indeed :P). The total number of entries in the Moten-English
dictionary is now 459, which is a definite record for me: I've never
designed a language with so many words before :) . As for the English-Moten
word list, it contains 921 entries so far, which means that on average each
Moten lexeme has two English glosses. I guess I'm not doing too bad in
ensuring the Moten vocabulary isn't just a relex :) .
Once again, comments are more than welcome. If you have comments about the
font choice, keep in mind that I am currently building this dictionary on a
locked down computer, which means that I am stuck with the fonts installed
on it. I did my best with what I had. I am open to suggestions concerning
font use, but I can't do anything if you advise me to use fonts that I
don't already have on this computer. When I eventually move the dictionary
export system to something that allows me to use XeLaTeX, I'll be much
freer in my font usage.
Comments on the contents of the dictionary are also more than welcome. I've
tried to make every dictionary entry complete and readable, with enough
information to give the reader a good idea of a lexeme's semantic range,
but I am curious whether I succeeded in this. Naturally, all this is a work
in progress, so if you spot errors and/or deficiencies, don't hesitate to
comment, so I can solve those issues for the next version.
Thanks a lot for your help!
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: More Online Moten Dictionary
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:22 am ((PDT))
Hi, Google .docx isn't screen reader accessible. Can you send me the dictionary
off-list? I'll try to read it.
Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 2:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: More Online Moten Dictionary
Hi everyone,
I took people's comments to heart and updated my Moten - English - Moten
dictionary. It's still available at the same place:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4Ba74aEwr57bVQ2V2QtbnJNSk0/edit?usp=sharing
The main differences between this version and the previous one are:
- A cover page (it's not much, but it serves :P);
- Different fonts, which should be more readable. In particular, in the
font I've chosen for the Moten lexemes the pipe | extends way below the
baseline, which should make it easier to recognise compared to l;
- A pronunciation guide and a list of abbreviations before the dictionary
proper, as well as a description of the dictionary's entries.
I also cleaned up some entries, corrected others, and added new words,
included the indispensable verb _ipsenaj_ (stem _psena_), which means "to
swallow, to ingest (for purposes other than nutrition)", but also "to
smoke" (in the sense of smoking cigarettes or joints. If you said you were
smoking fish using this verb, a Moten speaker would get a very weird mental
image indeed :P). The total number of entries in the Moten-English
dictionary is now 459, which is a definite record for me: I've never
designed a language with so many words before :) . As for the English-Moten
word list, it contains 921 entries so far, which means that on average each
Moten lexeme has two English glosses. I guess I'm not doing too bad in
ensuring the Moten vocabulary isn't just a relex :) .
Once again, comments are more than welcome. If you have comments about the
font choice, keep in mind that I am currently building this dictionary on a
locked down computer, which means that I am stuck with the fonts installed
on it. I did my best with what I had. I am open to suggestions concerning
font use, but I can't do anything if you advise me to use fonts that I
don't already have on this computer. When I eventually move the dictionary
export system to something that allows me to use XeLaTeX, I'll be much
freer in my font usage.
Comments on the contents of the dictionary are also more than welcome. I've
tried to make every dictionary entry complete and readable, with enough
information to give the reader a good idea of a lexeme's semantic range,
but I am curious whether I succeeded in this. Naturally, all this is a work
in progress, so if you spot errors and/or deficiencies, don't hesitate to
comment, so I can solve those issues for the next version.
Thanks a lot for your help!
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (2)
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