There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
1.2. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
From: Padraic Brown
1.3. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
From: MorphemeAddict
1.4. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
From: Padraic Brown
1.5. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
From: George Corley
2a. Bold claims from the U of Reading / Washington post
From: Eugene Oh
2b. Re: Bold claims from the U of Reading / Washington post
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
3a. Conlangery down?
From: Manny Fernandez
3b. Re: Conlangery down?
From: Amanda Babcock Furrow
3c. Re: Conlangery down?
From: Dustfinger Batailleur
3d. Re: Conlangery down?
From: David Peterson
4. [THEORY] Good references on sound symbolism / phonosemantics.
From: Leonardo Castro
Messages
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1.1. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 9:29 am ((PDT))
Weird divergences like what? Diffent spellings?
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Padraic Brown
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 5:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
--- On Mon, 5/13/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Oh, cool. Love the idea! Thanks. I'm guessing that's where the semantics
> and pragmatics would comein?
No, just plain old practicality. Why create fifteen different conlangs
that in reality are just close dialects of one another? You're just
reinventing the wheel each time. Just create one language, call it the
standard dialect and then devise some weird divergences to stand in for
all the other dialects.
If you're creating languages as background material for a novel (you are
a budding novelist, after all!), then don't waste too much time or effort
on making the languages. You have a lot going on and very little being
done it seems to me.
Padraic
> Mellissa Green
Messages in this topic (43)
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1.2. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 10:49 am ((PDT))
--- On Mon, 5/13/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Weird divergences like what? Diffent spellings?
??
Any kind! -- the sorts of things people have been discussing with you:
semantic drift / changes in meaning, different pronunciation of words,
different words entirely, etc.
Kind of like the coke vs. soda thing in America. In certain parts of the
US, if you ask the waitress "gimme a coke", she'll get you a Coca Cola
(or Pepsi, or RC, or whatever brand of cola they serve). In other parts
of the country, "gimme a coke" will prompt the waitress to ask you "what
kind?" This is semantic drift, where "coke" has come to mean any generic
fizzy-sweet drink.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (43)
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1.3. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 11:56 am ((PDT))
Following the tangent:
Here near Cincinnati when I ask for a Coke, if they don't serve Coca Cola,
they ask me if Pepsi (or whatever) will be all right. They don't just
assume it.
stevo
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- On Mon, 5/13/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Weird divergences like what? Diffent spellings?
>
> ??
>
> Any kind! -- the sorts of things people have been discussing with you:
> semantic drift / changes in meaning, different pronunciation of words,
> different words entirely, etc.
>
> Kind of like the coke vs. soda thing in America. In certain parts of the
> US, if you ask the waitress "gimme a coke", she'll get you a Coca Cola
> (or Pepsi, or RC, or whatever brand of cola they serve). In other parts
> of the country, "gimme a coke" will prompt the waitress to ask you "what
> kind?" This is semantic drift, where "coke" has come to mean any generic
> fizzy-sweet drink.
>
> Padraic
>
Messages in this topic (43)
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1.4. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 14, 2013 4:22 am ((PDT))
--- On Mon, 5/13/13, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here near Cincinnati when I ask for a Coke, if they don't
> serve Coca Cola,
> they ask me if Pepsi (or whatever) will be all right. They
> don't just assume it.
I think that's pretty typical to ask. To be honest, I wouldn't know the
difference if they broght out an RC or a Pepsi in stead. They all taste
about the same.
Padraic
>
> stevo
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > --- On Mon, 5/13/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> <
> > [email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Weird divergences like what? Diffent spellings?
> >
> > ??
> >
> > Any kind! -- the sorts of things people have been
> discussing with you:
> > semantic drift / changes in meaning, different
> pronunciation of words,
> > different words entirely, etc.
> >
> > Kind of like the coke vs. soda thing in America. In
> certain parts of the
> > US, if you ask the waitress "gimme a coke", she'll get
> you a Coca Cola
> > (or Pepsi, or RC, or whatever brand of cola they
> serve). In other parts
> > of the country, "gimme a coke" will prompt the waitress
> to ask you "what
> > kind?" This is semantic drift, where "coke" has come to
> mean any generic
> > fizzy-sweet drink.
> >
> > Padraic
> >
>
Messages in this topic (43)
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1.5. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 14, 2013 4:51 am ((PDT))
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- On Mon, 5/13/13, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Here near Cincinnati when I ask for a Coke, if they don't
> > serve Coca Cola,
> > they ask me if Pepsi (or whatever) will be all right. They
> > don't just assume it.
>
> I think that's pretty typical to ask. To be honest, I wouldn't know the
> difference if they broght out an RC or a Pepsi in stead. They all taste
> about the same.
This is actually bound up in trademark law. The restaurant doesn't want to
be sued by Coca-Cola, so they train their staff to ask. There could also
be some branding direction from Pepsi, seeing as most of these places have
a deal with one or the other.
Also, Coke and Pepsi tasting the same? I think your taste buds are off.
Messages in this topic (43)
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2a. Bold claims from the U of Reading / Washington post
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 2:34 pm ((PDT))
"You, hear me! Give this fire to that old man. Pull the black worm off the bark
and give it to the mother. And no spitting in the ashes!
It’s an odd little speech. But if you went back 15,000 years and spoke these
words to hunter-gatherers in Asia in any one of hundreds of modern languages,
there is a chance they would understand at least some of what you were saying."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/linguists-identify-15000-year-old-ultraconserved-words/2013/05/06/a02e3a14-b427-11e2-9a98-4be1688d7d84_story.html
Sent from my iPad
Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: Bold claims from the U of Reading / Washington post
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 3:10 pm ((PDT))
On 13 May 2013 23:34, Eugene Oh <[email protected]> wrote:
> "You, hear me! Give this fire to that old man. Pull the black worm off the
> bark and give it to the mother. And no spitting in the ashes!
>
> It’s an odd little speech. But if you went back 15,000 years and spoke
> these words to hunter-gatherers in Asia in any one of hundreds of modern
> languages, there is a chance they would understand at least some of what
> you were saying."
>
>
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/linguists-identify-15000-year-old-ultraconserved-words/2013/05/06/a02e3a14-b427-11e2-9a98-4be1688d7d84_story.html
>
>
And here for a very good rebuttal:
http://geocurrents.info/cultural-geography/linguistic-geography/do-ultraconserved-words-reveal-linguistic-macro-families
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Conlangery down?
Posted by: "Manny Fernandez" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 5:29 pm ((PDT))
Hey y'all, long time lurker, first time emailer. Not that exciting of an
occasion however, just noticed that the conlangery.com (http://conlangery.com)
web site seems to be down, both from my computer and
www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com
(http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com). Anyone got information?
- Manny
Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Conlangery down?
Posted by: "Amanda Babcock Furrow" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 5:58 pm ((PDT))
The webhost of conlangery.org as well as conlang.org and all its subdomains
and related sites says: External attacks affecting customers across all
datacenters (http://www.dreamhoststatus.com)
They are working on fixing it.
tylak�hlp�'f�,
Amanda
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 08:19:51PM -0400, Manny Fernandez wrote:
> Hey y'all, long time lurker, first time emailer. Not that exciting of an
> occasion however, just noticed that the conlangery.com
> (http://conlangery.com) web site seems to be down, both from my computer and
> www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com
> (http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com). Anyone got
> information?
>
> - Manny
Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: Conlangery down?
Posted by: "Dustfinger Batailleur" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 6:39 pm ((PDT))
Down for me too.
On 13 May 2013 20:19, Manny Fernandez <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey y'all, long time lurker, first time emailer. Not that exciting of an
> occasion however, just noticed that the conlangery.com (
> http://conlangery.com) web site seems to be down, both from my computer
> and www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com (
> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com). Anyone got
> information?
>
> - Manny
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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3d. Re: Conlangery down?
Posted by: "David Peterson" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 13, 2013 6:42 pm ((PDT))
And for everyone. As Amanda said, there's an issue with DreamHost. You can keep
tabs on it here:
http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/
David Peterson
LCS President
[email protected]
www.conlang.org
On May 13, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Down for me too.
>
>
> On 13 May 2013 20:19, Manny Fernandez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hey y'all, long time lurker, first time emailer. Not that exciting of an
>> occasion however, just noticed that the conlangery.com (
>> http://conlangery.com) web site seems to be down, both from my computer
>> and www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com (
>> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/conlangery.com). Anyone got
>> information?
>>
>> - Manny
>>
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. [THEORY] Good references on sound symbolism / phonosemantics.
Posted by: "Leonardo Castro" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 14, 2013 4:37 am ((PDT))
Does anyone want to suggest some references on sound symbolism /
phonosemantics?
At� mais!
Leonardo
Messages in this topic (1)
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