There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
From: Daniel Myers
1b. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
From: Casey Borders
1c. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
From: Adam Walker
1d. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
2a. THEORY: False false cognates.
From: Leonardo Castro
2b. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
From: Nathan Schulzke
2c. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
From: Eugene Oh
2d. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
From: C. Brickner
2e. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
From: Matthew Boutilier
3.1. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
From: Anthony Miles
3.2. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
From: Juanma Barranquero
4a. Re: No = zero ?
From: Anthony Miles
5a. Re: Too simple to be derived?
From: David McCann
6a. Possible case system
From: Adam Walker
6b. Re: Possible case system
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
Posted by: "Daniel Myers" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 6:57 am ((PDT))
I plan on waling them through a method for building a phonemic inventory
along with patterns for generating realistic-sounding words, and then
providing suggestions for roughing out a basic grammar. Depending on
how long that takes (and how many times I get sidetracked), I'll spend
the rest of the time discussing quirks of various languages, color
terms, numbers, etc.
- Doc
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 1:12 am
>
> I hoe I'll get something out of it. I wish I had my book from Holly LisleI
> hope I can find it again, since the guide I'm ging through just give brief
> info, since it was geared towards a class she was teaching.
> Do you have a Table of Contents?
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Myers
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:06 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Language Creation at GenCon
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm the one doing the language creation seminar. My intention is to
> gear it towards conlang newbies, so I suspect there won't be much that
> hasn't been covered here over the past several years.
>
> I'm pretty easy to sidetrack, though. ;-)
>
> Recording it is fine, as long as you don't make too much fun of my
> voice. I'm also ok with the recording being posted online.
>
> I can't remember what my schedule is like on Friday after the seminar,
> but I'm pretty easy to find at the con - just look at the Writer's
> Symposium seminars or at the MHE Paint & Take area.
>
> - Doc
> (Daniel Myers, Blackspoon Press)
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > From: Casey Borders <[email protected]>
> > Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 2:41 pm
> >
> > Most likely not but I could try to do an audio recording if the presenter
> > is up for it.
> > On May 19, 2013 2:24 PM, "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Will it be online?
> > >
> > > Mellissa Green
> > >
> > > @GreenNovelist
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > > Behalf Of Casey Borders
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:49 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Language Creation at GenCon
> > >
> > > This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a language
> > > (
> > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on learning Esperanto (
> > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41738)!
> > >
> > > For those of you who aren't familiar with GenCon it is the largest board /
> > > tabletop gaming convention in the country! It happens every year in
> > > Indianapolis and is an awesome time! If you have a chance you
> > > should definitely stop by!
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *Casey Borders*
> > >
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
Posted by: "Casey Borders" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 7:01 am ((PDT))
I am very excited about this! I've never had the opportunity to chat with
any Conlangers in person!
*
*
*Casey Borders*
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Daniel Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I plan on waling them through a method for building a phonemic inventory
> along with patterns for generating realistic-sounding words, and then
> providing suggestions for roughing out a basic grammar. Depending on
> how long that takes (and how many times I get sidetracked), I'll spend
> the rest of the time discussing quirks of various languages, color
> terms, numbers, etc.
>
> - Doc
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
> > Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 1:12 am
> >
> > I hoe I'll get something out of it. I wish I had my book from Holly
> LisleI hope I can find it again, since the guide I'm ging through just give
> brief info, since it was geared towards a class she was teaching.
> > Do you have a Table of Contents?
> >
> > Mellissa Green
> >
> >
> > @GreenNovelist
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Myers
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:06 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Language Creation at GenCon
> >
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I'm the one doing the language creation seminar. My intention is to
> > gear it towards conlang newbies, so I suspect there won't be much that
> > hasn't been covered here over the past several years.
> >
> > I'm pretty easy to sidetrack, though. ;-)
> >
> > Recording it is fine, as long as you don't make too much fun of my
> > voice. I'm also ok with the recording being posted online.
> >
> > I can't remember what my schedule is like on Friday after the seminar,
> > but I'm pretty easy to find at the con - just look at the Writer's
> > Symposium seminars or at the MHE Paint & Take area.
> >
> > - Doc
> > (Daniel Myers, Blackspoon Press)
> >
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > From: Casey Borders <[email protected]>
> > > Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 2:41 pm
> > >
> > > Most likely not but I could try to do an audio recording if the
> presenter
> > > is up for it.
> > > On May 19, 2013 2:24 PM, "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" <
> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Will it be online?
> > > >
> > > > Mellissa Green
> > > >
> > > > @GreenNovelist
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]]
> On
> > > > Behalf Of Casey Borders
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:49 AM
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: Language Creation at GenCon
> > > >
> > > > This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a
> language (
> > > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on learning
> Esperanto (
> > > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41738)!
> > > >
> > > > For those of you who aren't familiar with GenCon it is the largest
> board /
> > > > tabletop gaming convention in the country! It happens every year in
> > > > Indianapolis and is an awesome time! If you have a chance you
> > > > should definitely stop by!
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *Casey Borders*
> > > >
>
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 8:24 am ((PDT))
It's quite a rush!
Adam
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Casey Borders <[email protected]>wrote:
> I am very excited about this! I've never had the opportunity to chat with
> any Conlangers in person!
>
> *
> *
> *Casey Borders*
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Daniel Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I plan on waling them through a method for building a phonemic inventory
> > along with patterns for generating realistic-sounding words, and then
> > providing suggestions for roughing out a basic grammar. Depending on
> > how long that takes (and how many times I get sidetracked), I'll spend
> > the rest of the time discussing quirks of various languages, color
> > terms, numbers, etc.
> >
> > - Doc
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
> > > Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 1:12 am
> > >
> > > I hoe I'll get something out of it. I wish I had my book from Holly
> > LisleI hope I can find it again, since the guide I'm ging through just
> give
> > brief info, since it was geared towards a class she was teaching.
> > > Do you have a Table of Contents?
> > >
> > > Mellissa Green
> > >
> > >
> > > @GreenNovelist
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]]
> On
> > Behalf Of Daniel Myers
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:06 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: Language Creation at GenCon
> > >
> > >
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > I'm the one doing the language creation seminar. My intention is to
> > > gear it towards conlang newbies, so I suspect there won't be much that
> > > hasn't been covered here over the past several years.
> > >
> > > I'm pretty easy to sidetrack, though. ;-)
> > >
> > > Recording it is fine, as long as you don't make too much fun of my
> > > voice. I'm also ok with the recording being posted online.
> > >
> > > I can't remember what my schedule is like on Friday after the seminar,
> > > but I'm pretty easy to find at the con - just look at the Writer's
> > > Symposium seminars or at the MHE Paint & Take area.
> > >
> > > - Doc
> > > (Daniel Myers, Blackspoon Press)
> > >
> > >
> > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > From: Casey Borders <[email protected]>
> > > > Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 2:41 pm
> > > >
> > > > Most likely not but I could try to do an audio recording if the
> > presenter
> > > > is up for it.
> > > > On May 19, 2013 2:24 PM, "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" <
> > > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Will it be online?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mellissa Green
> > > > >
> > > > > @GreenNovelist
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:
> [email protected]]
> > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Casey Borders
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:49 AM
> > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > Subject: Language Creation at GenCon
> > > > >
> > > > > This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a
> > language (
> > > > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on learning
> > Esperanto (
> > > > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41738)!
> > > > >
> > > > > For those of you who aren't familiar with GenCon it is the largest
> > board /
> > > > > tabletop gaming convention in the country! It happens every year
> in
> > > > > Indianapolis and is an awesome time! If you have a chance you
> > > > > should definitely stop by!
> > > > > *
> > > > > *
> > > > > *Casey Borders*
> > > > >
> >
>
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Language Creation at GenCon
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 9:47 am ((PDT))
Sounds like I'll get something out it.
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Daniel Myers
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Language Creation at GenCon
I plan on waling them through a method for building a phonemic inventory
along with patterns for generating realistic-sounding words, and then
providing suggestions for roughing out a basic grammar. Depending on
how long that takes (and how many times I get sidetracked), I'll spend
the rest of the time discussing quirks of various languages, color
terms, numbers, etc.
- Doc
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 1:12 am
>
> I hoe I'll get something out of it. I wish I had my book from Holly LisleI
> hope I can find it again, since the guide I'm ging through just give brief
> info, since it was geared towards a class she was teaching.
> Do you have a Table of Contents?
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Myers
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:06 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Language Creation at GenCon
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm the one doing the language creation seminar. My intention is to
> gear it towards conlang newbies, so I suspect there won't be much that
> hasn't been covered here over the past several years.
>
> I'm pretty easy to sidetrack, though. ;-)
>
> Recording it is fine, as long as you don't make too much fun of my
> voice. I'm also ok with the recording being posted online.
>
> I can't remember what my schedule is like on Friday after the seminar,
> but I'm pretty easy to find at the con - just look at the Writer's
> Symposium seminars or at the MHE Paint & Take area.
>
> - Doc
> (Daniel Myers, Blackspoon Press)
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > From: Casey Borders <[email protected]>
> > Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 2:41 pm
> >
> > Most likely not but I could try to do an audio recording if the presenter
> > is up for it.
> > On May 19, 2013 2:24 PM, "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Will it be online?
> > >
> > > Mellissa Green
> > >
> > > @GreenNovelist
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > > Behalf Of Casey Borders
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:49 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Language Creation at GenCon
> > >
> > > This year at GenCon there is going to be a session on creating a language
> > > (
> > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41206) and another on learning Esperanto (
> > > https://www.gencon.com/events/41738)!
> > >
> > > For those of you who aren't familiar with GenCon it is the largest board /
> > > tabletop gaming convention in the country! It happens every year in
> > > Indianapolis and is an awesome time! If you have a chance you
> > > should definitely stop by!
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *Casey Borders*
> > >
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. THEORY: False false cognates.
Posted by: "Leonardo Castro" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 7:19 am ((PDT))
Is there an abuse of the expression "false cognates" in your countries too?
AFAIK, "cognate" is an etymological concept, but people here in Brazil
keeps using "false cognates" as " words of two languages that appear
to have the same meaning, but don't ", with no regard to their origin.
Até mais!
Leonardo
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
Posted by: "Nathan Schulzke" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 9:36 am ((PDT))
Well, false cognate would strictly mean words that appear to have the same
origin but don't.
In my experience in language classes the average person is pretty poor at
identifying cognates that don't have a 1 to 1 correspondence. So they'll
sort of understand the definition above, but be unable to identify words
that meet it.
They'll then proceed to label the words as false cognates, since as far as
they can see they're unrelated.
On May 20, 2013 8:19 AM, "Leonardo Castro" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is there an abuse of the expression "false cognates" in your countries too?
>
> AFAIK, "cognate" is an etymological concept, but people here in Brazil
> keeps using "false cognates" as " words of two languages that appear
> to have the same meaning, but don't ", with no regard to their origin.
>
> Até mais!
>
> Leonardo
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 9:57 am ((PDT))
Leonardo, the concept you describe sounds like "false friends"
Eugene
Sent from my iPhone
On 20 May 2013, at 17:33, Nathan Schulzke <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, false cognate would strictly mean words that appear to have the same
> origin but don't.
>
> In my experience in language classes the average person is pretty poor at
> identifying cognates that don't have a 1 to 1 correspondence. So they'll
> sort of understand the definition above, but be unable to identify words
> that meet it.
>
> They'll then proceed to label the words as false cognates, since as far as
> they can see they're unrelated.
> On May 20, 2013 8:19 AM, "Leonardo Castro" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Is there an abuse of the expression "false cognates" in your countries too?
>>
>> AFAIK, "cognate" is an etymological concept, but people here in Brazil
>> keeps using "false cognates" as " words of two languages that appear
>> to have the same meaning, but don't ", with no regard to their origin.
>>
>> At¨¦ mais!
>>
>> Leonardo
>>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
Posted by: "C. Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 10:01 am ((PDT))
Read the Wikipedia articles "False Cognate" and "False Friend".
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
Well, false cognate would strictly mean words that appear to have the same
origin but don't.
In my experience in language classes the average person is pretty poor at
identifying cognates that don't have a 1 to 1 correspondence. So they'll
sort of understand the definition above, but be unable to identify words
that meet it.
They'll then proceed to label the words as false cognates, since as far as
they can see they're unrelated.
On May 20, 2013 8:19 AM, "Leonardo Castro" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is there an abuse of the expression "false cognates" in your countries too?
>
> AFAIK, "cognate" is an etymological concept, but people here in Brazil
> keeps using "false cognates" as " words of two languages that appear
> to have the same meaning, but don't ", with no regard to their origin.
>
> Até mais!
>
> Leonardo
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: THEORY: False false cognates.
Posted by: "Matthew Boutilier" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 10:08 am ((PDT))
yes!
in my experience with classroom language-learning, especially in high
school, teachers and students pretty much use "false cognates" and "false
friends" interchangeably, to describe words that look like they should have
the same *meaning* but don't.
so, i repeatedly heard that english *gift* and german *Gift* were false
cognates (the latter means 'poison'). but the words are, of course,
cognates (the german semantics seem to have gone "a dosage (how much is
given)" > "a drug" > "poison").
same with the abundance of words that multiple languages have taken from
latin and used for different things. english *eventual* and german *
eventuell* mean different things, so i suppose they're "false friends," but
they are obviously the same word; nevertheless many a german teacher would
use the term "false cognates."
i don't think the general public of any country/culture has a solid grasp
of what cognates are.
matt
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Eugene Oh <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leonardo, the concept you describe sounds like "false friends"
>
> Eugene
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 20 May 2013, at 17:33, Nathan Schulzke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Well, false cognate would strictly mean words that appear to have the
> same
> > origin but don't.
> >
> > In my experience in language classes the average person is pretty poor at
> > identifying cognates that don't have a 1 to 1 correspondence. So they'll
> > sort of understand the definition above, but be unable to identify words
> > that meet it.
> >
> > They'll then proceed to label the words as false cognates, since as far
> as
> > they can see they're unrelated.
> > On May 20, 2013 8:19 AM, "Leonardo Castro" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there an abuse of the expression "false cognates" in your countries
> too?
> >>
> >> AFAIK, "cognate" is an etymological concept, but people here in Brazil
> >> keeps using "false cognates" as " words of two languages that appear
> >> to have the same meaning, but don't ", with no regard to their origin.
> >>
> >> Até mais!
> >>
> >> Leonardo
> >>
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3.1. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 8:35 am ((PDT))
> I'd like to borrow from computer parlance and call it the "bootstrapping
> lexicon" -- the minimum vocabulary that's necessary for the conlang to
> be able to "pull itself up standing by its boot straps", so to speak.
The trouble with a bootstrapping (or "critical mass") lexicon is that
it just doesn't say too much, I think. In computer science, if you
strip programming languages back to their minimum Turing-complete
selves, the results will have (roughly speaking) similar sizes. I'd
bet the same happens for most languages (conlangs or otherwise). I
don't know how many words would be required, but surely if you can
bootstrap English with 500 or 1,000 root words or whatever the number,
you can bootstrap Spanish or Quenya or Klingon or Inuktitut with a
similar number of roots, and any noticeable differences in boostrap
lexicon size, leaving aside explicit artistic choices (like having
lots of words for weapons or any other semantic field) would likely
align along a broad morphological axis (agglutinative, isolating,
etc.).
R: Bootstrapping is fine n the early stages, when you're still learning your
own basic vocabulary and your grammar is semifluid. IMO it forces you to be
creative and not just coin a new word every time you get stuck If you go with
a minimal vocabulary, however the powers of grammaticalization are
overwhelming.
In my current conlang, I added a causative suffix which instantly
grammaticalized the majority of the derived meanings. The five directional
suffixes frequently also grammaticalize the new meaning of the verb. The syntax
of specific verbs is sometimes grammaticalized. This conlang is agglutinative
with some polysynthesis, but if I were doing an isolating language from a
similar starting point, there would be lots of serial verb constructions. In
this case, I find myself making compound nouns and sometimes verbalizing them.
For example the verb 'yimpopusuma' "Impo Kasa umtu tutuku yimpopusuma" "the
Polar Wind blew mightily at the man" from the North Wind and the Sun comes from
the 'impo-su' 'to blow hard' which is from 'impo', 'wind', vs. 'im' 'breath'.
'im-su' means 'to spit, to expel something using breath'.
In natlangs, IIUC Yupik, a language related to Inuktitut, has about 2000 roots,
including culturally appropriate ones such as "d*** lazy dog who won't
cooperate", but it also has 85 postbases, most of which would be adjectives,
adverbs, or auxiliary verbs in any other language. So I suppose the formula for
bootstrapping Yupik would be (roots) - (culturally specific roots) + (postbases
that other languages would consider basic roots). Likewise, you can get by with
a small number of verbs, but then you need a large number of nouns. I suppose
you could have a large number of verbs, and a few nouns - English does this
with causatives - but I don't know how far you could push that. (Come on,
brain, back to ConCave!). Possibly the conlang Ttuan provides some examples of
absurdly specific verb forms - although my favorite from a natlang is 'to cut a
cassowary in quarters' - not any other bird, not any other division, just
cassowary, just quarters.
Even in an impoverished environment humans or something like them will expand
vocabulary. And a pidgin or small-vocabulary creole implies the existence of
two or more available other languages.
Messages in this topic (59)
________________________________________________________________________
3.2. Re: Typical lexicon size in natlangs
Posted by: "Juanma Barranquero" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 8:56 am ((PDT))
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Anthony Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> Even in an impoverished environment humans or something like them will expand
> vocabulary.
Sure. But this thread discusses "typical lexicon size", and Gary
Shannon and H. S. Teoh proposed a "bootstrap lexicon size" as a
meaningful measure. And I'm just pointing out that I don't think it
would be a good metric, because if you use it for many languages, and
the resulting size varies, let's say, between X-10% and X+10% for some
X, that does not offer any insight about the *typical* lexicon size of
the languages so tested. Systems of vastly different complexity can
arise from similarly simple foundations (cellular automata are a clear
example of that).
J
Messages in this topic (59)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. Re: No = zero ?
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 8:38 am ((PDT))
In general I think 'nothing' is more more often, and more
sensibly, associated with 'zero' than the mere negation is. Many
European languages derive their word for 'zero' from the Latin
word for 'none'. Sanskrit uses _ÅÅ«nyam_ 'empty, void' for 'zero'
as a 'value', but the digit is _bindu_ 'dot', which is just what
it looks like in the Indic scripts. So I'd advise you to use
'none/nothing/void' for 'zero' if you don't want a dedicated word
for it, if only to avoid strange ambiguities.
/bpj
R: In Siye, the word for 'nothing' or 'zero' is 'uku'. This is homophonous with
'uku', 'fish'. Thus, 'zero' in Siye is not written as a circle, but looks like
the Jesus fish on the bumper stickers of American cars.
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5a. Re: Too simple to be derived?
Posted by: "David McCann" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 8:47 am ((PDT))
On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:10:06 -0300
Leonardo Castro <[email protected]> wrote:
> A problem in forming the opposite with a preffix is that sometimes
> "opposite" seems to be subjective or multiple. What's the opposite of
> "boring" -- "interesting", "exciting", "fun", "funny" or "not boring"?
> For some people, the opposite of "sweet" is "salty", but it could be
> also "bitter", "acid" (and what to do with "alkaline"?) or
> "savourless"...
What Zamenhoff was missing was the logical difference between
contraries and contradictories. Contraries are the opposite ends of a
scale, like black and white, big and small. In natural languages they
are normally expressed by separate terms. Contradictories are terms
which divide the scale between them, like coloured and colourless, and
these are generally derivatives. Esperanto's malrapida confuses "slow"
and "not fast".
Messages in this topic (9)
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6a. Possible case system
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 11:17 am ((PDT))
I have been tinkering with what will eventually become the case system for
Gravgaln (now that verbs are stabilizing) and here's what I came up with
last night:
John-ak ate the cake-ev.
John-ak ate.
John-ev fell.
John-ak fell. (because he threw himself down)
John-ak gave Tom-il the book-ev.
John-ak gave Tom-il Bob-ev.
John-ak killed Bob-ev.
John-ev was killed.
John-ak killed Bob-ev knife-azh.
John-ak killed Tom-azh.
John-ak killed Bob-ev Tom-azh.
John-ev hairbrush-on is missing.
Fifth grade teacher-ev-on is tired.
Bob-ak killed Tom-ev cat-on.
So, is this an Active-Stative alignment I'm working on here? A slightly
wonky Active-Stative System? Something else entirely? Seriously flawed in
some way I don't see yet?
Adam
Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Possible case system
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 20, 2013 11:23 am ((PDT))
Do these cases have a name?
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Adam Walker
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Possible case system
I have been tinkering with what will eventually become the case system for
Gravgaln (now that verbs are stabilizing) and here's what I came up with
last night:
John-ak ate the cake-ev.
John-ak ate.
John-ev fell.
John-ak fell. (because he threw himself down)
John-ak gave Tom-il the book-ev.
John-ak gave Tom-il Bob-ev.
John-ak killed Bob-ev.
John-ev was killed.
John-ak killed Bob-ev knife-azh.
John-ak killed Tom-azh.
John-ak killed Bob-ev Tom-azh.
John-ev hairbrush-on is missing.
Fifth grade teacher-ev-on is tired.
Bob-ak killed Tom-ev cat-on.
So, is this an Active-Stative alignment I'm working on here? A slightly
wonky Active-Stative System? Something else entirely? Seriously flawed in
some way I don't see yet?
Adam
Messages in this topic (2)
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