This helps explain, along with other posts on the subject, why the issue of 'Affirmative Action,' along with it's supporting cast of 'diversity' and 'critical mass,' is so controversial, not to say intractable.
We KNOW this country was built in some considerable measure off the sweat of black slaves. It was also built off the sweat of nonblack sweatshop workers, nonunionized coal miners, shipyard workers and steel workers. We have a whole history of favored groups keeping others down. The life of the country has been to overcome that, legally as well as socially and economically. Rarely do we pause and say, "We really shouldn't have done that." We just say it without pausing or making reparations. We marked the Japanese-American internment with a token reparation. We have a Holocaust museum to warn against repeating the German experiment. We don't yet have a Slavery/Jim Crow museum in the nation's capitol. Too close to home, I guess. Or maybe the whole place is the monument. When we practice group discrimination, and take generations to get past it, usually over opposition, by the time we decide, officially, it was wrong, its too late to make reparations. The generations are too mixed, commingled. Too hard to classify wrongdoers and victims separately from their opposites. All we can do is go on. And learn what to avoid doing next time. If Strom Thurmond, Lester Maddox, and the South could get past their earlier attitudes to cooperate with blacks, maybe Justice O'Connor's 'a little bit of remedial racism is okay taken once a year for the next twenty-five years, then quit,' may be right on the money, practically speaking. Eats hell out of the principles of equality and strict scrutiny, but, hey, this is the U.S., not Plato's idea of neverland, so we'll just have to swing with it. I wonder what the North is going to do. The sun continues to come up in the East as it did before, and life goes on as usual... Robert Sheridan [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [Original Message] > From: Lynne Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 6/28/2003 7:22:10 AM > Subject: Re: Puzzles re: Grutter and Korematsu - hispanics and segregatedschools > > I might add that both Latinos--mostly Mexican-Americans-- and Asians were > discriminated against by law in western states, especially California, for > many years. There are numerous histories documenting discrimination against > both groups ( e.g., McEvoy's *The fisherman's Problem* documents legal, > political, and social discrimination against Japanese fishers in Calif.) > Indeed, of course, we have a sorry national history going back at least to > the *Chinese Exclusion Cases*, the 1924 (?) Act denying citizenship to > Japanese immigrants, etc. The history of th e*bracero* program is one that > involves prejudice and broken promises, and it affected not only Mexian > migrant workers but Meixcan Americans in California and elsewhere. Then > there's always *Hiraybashi* and *Korematsu*. The discrimination is > "different" from that of discrimination against Blacks, but real (and > continuing socially, if not formally). Former Califronia Supreme Court > Justice and now law prof Cruz Reynoso was required to attend the "black" > school instead of being allowed to go to the "white" school when he was > growing up. . . And as recently as the 1980s, it was well known in > California that a Hispanic-surname person running fo rjudge would lose (big > flap over Elva Sofer Aguilar changing her name back to Sofer after her > divorce) There are cultural and negative stereotypes of Mexican-Americans, > Puerto Ricans, Japanes, Chinese, etc. (And a tendency of majority members > epsecially to lump all darker skinned people from Spanish-speaking > countries in the same bunch , be they from Guatemala, Mexico, Peru. . . ) > All of this indicates historic and recent social prejudice agains tlarge > groups of people, which does distiguish from the "assimilated" Irish, > German, Italian, etc. descendants these days. > respectfully > Lynne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barksdale, Yvette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: Puzzles re: Grutter and Korematsu - hispanics and segregated > schools > > > > HI > > > > See the following symposium for some perspectives on how Latinas/os > experience race, ethnicity, etc. in America. Yes, the experience of > Latinas/os in America is different than that of African-Americans, just as > the experience of Asian Americans is different. However, this does mean that > race does not matter for them, just that it operates in different ways. > > > > Sympoisum: LatCrit: Latinas/os and the Law, A Joint Symposium by > California Law Review and La Raza Law Journal, Volume 10 of Berkeley La Raza > Law Journal (1998). > > > > yb > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************* > > Professor Yvette M. Barksdale > > Associate Professor of Law > > The John Marshall Law School > > 315 S. Plymouth Ct. > > Chicago, IL 60604 > > (312) 427-2737 > > (email:) [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ***************************************************** > > > > > > > ---------- > > > From: David Bernstein[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Reply To: Discussion list for con law professors > > > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 3:13 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: Puzzles re: Grutter and Korematsu - hispanics and > segregated schools > > > > > > I agree with the below, though obviously reasonable people can disagree > on the remedy. The below is why I think the case for affirmative action for > African Americans is a very serious one. Where we perhaps disagree is over > whether Latinos are "raced" in anything near the same way as African > Americans. High rates of intermarriage, self-identification as whites or as > members of country specific immigrant groups (Cuban Americans, Mexican > Americans, etc., not "Hispanics"), wide variation in economic success among > groups from different countries, etc., suggests not. Perhaps there is social > science data to prove me wrong that I haven't seen, but I don't think that > most whites or most Latinos think of Latinos as being a minority "race," and > even fewer would if government and universities didn't insist on classifying > them as such. A related observation is that most discussions of affirmative > action begin with a disclaimer that the programs at issue don't apply only > to African! > > Americans, but then the discussion proceeds as if they do (see Schuck's > otherwise wonderful book for an excellent example). > > > > > > In a message dated 6/27/2003 3:54:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the problem is the confusion of race discrimination with > economic disadvantage. Race is not simply an economic class problem, i.e., > that minorities are disproprotionately poorer and thus have fewer > advantages. Rather, race discrimination is a race problem. Minorities are > disadvantaged because of the society's attitudes about race, and they are > racially disadvantaged, even if they neverthelesss manage to become more > affluent, or integrated, etc. Race still affects their lives. And it affects > their lives no matter how much they might want to ignore race. Other people > race them, regardless of whether they want to be raced or not. > > > > > > > > > > > >
