Thank you, Jeff. That's a really interesting article. Sent from Gmail Mobile
On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 14:34 Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Louise, > > I started writing up a long response, then decided it was a better fit for > a blog post, then realized someone else had already written the blog post I > wanted to write: > https://andymasley.substack.com/p/individual-ai-use-is-not-bad-for > > The overall point is that querying an LLM uses very small amounts of both > energy and water, much less than many everyday activities. > > I do think caution around AI is justified, and that preventing AI-driven > catastrophes is one of the most important problems to work on > <https://80000hours.org/problem-profiles/artificial-intelligence/>. But > this isn't about energy usage or environmental impact, and I don't think we > should be discouraging others from using AI tools to help with formatting > or similar, as Rick was doing in his first message. > > Jeff > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 6:41 PM Louise Siddons via Contra Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Jeff, >> >> While I think derailing completely into a bibliography of the >> environmental impact of AI is inappropriate for this list (and despite your >> generous acknowledgement that you may have missed something, I’m sure >> you’re as capable as I am of reviewing the literature), your skepticism is >> on-topic enough in context for me to say some things and then be done: >> >> First, the historic issues around water provision and grid-derived power >> supply around data centers in the midwestern US offer some context for more >> recent discussions about (all contemporary) tech and energy. Second, >> pervasive discussion of nuclear energy as a useful “new” energy source >> gives some indication of the amount of power that emerging systems need. >> The articles I’ve read for work that review the environmental impact of >> future computing have so far relied either on the argument that nuclear is >> clean energy (and the 1980s might have something to say about that; it >> should at least be a public discussion rather than a private one), or the >> assumption that the technology itself will produce new efficiencies or >> solutions at some point faster than we otherwise would that will make it >> all okay. For me this latter argument relies a bit to much on the optimism >> of people who have directly contributed to many of the problems in the >> world today, and/or the philosophies they espouse (and in fact my primary >> conclusion overall has been that it’s shockingly hard to get good data on >> this question, and that in itself should prompt closer examination on all >> our parts). >> >> There are also social and cultural reasons to be cautious about AI, as it >> is being developed quickly and without significant ethical oversight — but >> they really are beyond the scope of this discussion except to say that I >> think the human environment is also worthy of concern. >> >> To Michael’s point earlier, some people may like to know (minuscule >> impact or not) that you can use “-ai” in your Google searches to stop it >> from giving that AI-generated summary at the top of search results. A bit >> like my Amazon boycott and my personal choice not to have a car, it’s a >> futile gesture in the grand scheme but one that feels right to/for me, as >> it’s a “feature” I didn’t ask for and don’t need, and which I see causing >> harm to/for others. >> >> Louise. >> >> >> > On 13 Jan 2025, at 22:20, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Louise, Keith: when you say that querying LLMs like this is an >> "environmental disaster" or "bad for the planet", what are you referring >> to? Most claims I've seen along these lines don't hold up at all when you >> start looking into the sourcing, but I might be missing something? >> > >> > Jeff >> _______________________________________________ >> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> [email protected] >> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
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