On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 18:25, Jean-Michel Dault wrote: > Le lun 10/03/2003 � 14:00, Adam Williamson a �crit : > > ...can you back up the argument that KDE 3 is "simpler" than GNOME 2? > > > Well I would answer you but Jean Michael has done a better job of explaining. > > I don't see that anywhere...but then, Cooker seems to have been missing > > messages again lately. > > Here is a cut-and-paste of what I said:
Thanks. Yes, this message did get lost somewhere. > Gnome is a good environment for experienced Linux people, but it lacks a > lot of polish for people coming from the Windows world. > > Take the file dialog for example. Tell some corporate users they have to > save everything on the file server, in /mnt/corporate. They'll have to > click on the ".." entry, then they'll get in /home and see all the > users, be confused, and maybe they'll try .. again and then click on > /mnt and then click on /corporate and finally save their stuff at the > right place. > > Then look at the KDE file dialog, at the left, you have a nice place > where people can make their shortcuts. Put it in the system wide > configuration, and every user will have a FILESERVER icon that they can > use easily. File dialog is one legitimate problem, it's well known and well discussed, and is in the works for GNOME 2.4. No-one can agree on exactly what to do with it, though =). It's just a hangover, basically. GNOME 2.0 was a framework release so they just ported the old file dialog to GTK+ 2, and then there were more pressing things to work on for 2.2. One very nice thing to try in the GNOME file dialog that doesn't work in KDE, AFAICT - tab-completion! Type a partial directory name in the entry box, hit tab, see what happens...=) > Take gnome-ppp versus kppp. gnome-ppp insists on a MRU of 296, and even > if you change the settings, it doesn't use them, the 296 value is > hard-coded into the gnome-ppp binary. This breaks EarthLink, who will > not accept 296 as a valid MRU (that 296 value was valid when everyone > was using 9600 modems BTW). > > It's little things, but all these little things add up... As someone pointed out, the gnome-network stuff is incredibly obsolete and not shipped with GNOME anymore. So the point now is: KDE has kppp, GNOME doesn't have anything :). > > relating it to specific things in KDE and GNOME, it doesn't wash. If you > > *can* relate it to specific things that aren't already being worked on, > > Are my examples specific enough? Yes, but as I mentioned, gnome-ppp is obsolete and the file dialog *is* being worked on. > I would add to this the fact that gnome always complains if the hostname > doesn't resolve (this is a PITA), the icons are really bad compared to > the KDE ones (specially the home icon), that kcalc does hexadecimal, > octal, binary, while the gnome one doesn't even have a "%" key (WTF?). I > start konqueror, click on a .tar.gz, it shows the contents, if I try the > same thing with Nautilus, it says it has no viewer. Can't say I mind the icons, personally. The default calculator is simple by design: if you want something more capable, use the scarily fully-featured gcalctool. file-roller ought to deal with archive contents, I think... > Maybe these issues can be easily adressed, but it really looks like the > GNOME team is too focused on the environment, and not enough focused on > the applications. Hmm, you've got to do both, really :) > > I just don't see the difference, to be honest. Your average luser runs > > an email client and a browser, right? I just don't see the difference > > For the most part, yes, but there are many other things to do. > Calculator, chat, instant messaging for example. gcalctool, xchat, gaim. xchat and gaim are strengths of the GTK+ environment, I know several KDE users who use them...there's GnomeICU, too. > > xchat and gftp aren't GNOME apps, they're GTK+ apps, not part of the > > GNOME project. There's a difference. They don't integrate with the GNOME > > framework at all (afaik), intentionally. gaim is almost the same - its > > GNOME integration is optional and currently very limited. > > Does GNOME provide any apps besides the file manager, browser and e-mail > client? ;-) Well, it all depends on the definition of "app", really ;). The stuff in Fifth Toe (galeon and some other programs) will be part of GNOME at some point, and from a certain angle you can call things like gnome-system-monitor apps. But the point is that you can make an app that uses the GTK+ toolkit but no other bits of the GNOME framework, or you can make one that, er, does :). > Now I don't say GNOME is not suitable for some people, just that for new > users, it might have some rough edges. I don't see the rough edges as particular to new users, really. It's better just to say GNOME 2.2 still has some rough edges :). Most of them are being industriously filed down for 2.4, though. :) -- adamw
