On 8 Oct 2003, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: > That's not obvious to me. Packages (programs) installation has > been simplified in rpmdrake2 (ending up with, among others, > current two-different-interfaces which is so critized - even if > it's logical and drastically simplifies the GUI). Simple > categories are available, good documentation in powerpack manuals > and online (and even with a clickable "Help" button now). > > If newbies don't use Packages Installation, I think it has more > to do with the fact that a computer is frightening in general - > they won't use other tools as well, outside of mozilla and > evolution and openoffice, until a trusted computer literate > friend shows them another one - probably not an administration > one. > > And I'm sure many other persons use rpmdrake2 and are very happy > with it. rpmdrake2 is wonderful. But, it still keeps surprising me how people think. The last few days I've been helping a person trying to get mandrake running. He's not so computer illiterate, but only knows windows and dos. Somehow, he tried to install all kinds of programs from source or binary tarbal, without even trying to use rpmdrake (ofcourse he might have not found the programs he was looking for because only 1 CD was added as media, since he only downloaded the first CD). So could rpmdrake provide info on packages, even if there is no media available for it?
> > I fail to see how merging two functionalities would end up with > an easier tool, whereas this suggestion keeps poping up. I think > people design interfaces they'd like to use, and since they are > not newbies, we end up with that suggestion. I see a long thread coming again:) I do want to comment two things: -Real newbies are few, people know the add/remove stuff of windows -I do see the logical distinction, but I also see disadvantages of current approach. Perhaps a compromis is possible, if we all think very hard:) > > - This application should feature _programs_, not > > _packages_ > > This is not just about terminology. What I mean is: > > list only packages that are programs and hide > > everything else. A definition of a program is "a > > package that has one or more menu entries". E.g. if > > it's not in the menus, it's not a program and > > therefore shouldn't be listed. > > "So what do we do with those other packages", you ask? > > I feel that is a good proposal. I don't know the best way to > integrate this suggestion in rpmdrake though. Maybe another > "sorting method". Maybe the default one (although the default one > is already "mandrake choices" e.g. a short selected list of > packages that are sensible to newbies). i like it as well. Something like we have in the menu? I want to play video, listen music, type a letter? > I don't know. Between 7.0 and 7.1 times we decided for the Menu > and Rpm-Groups new architecture, which is a bit different, I > don't know why because I didn't decided for them. Warly maybe you > remember? o it would be so nice to have the exact same groups in both. I sometimes have to check the files list of the rpms to find the executable I need (or go through the whole menu). > We decided for Media on this list around 3 months ago, this was a > sort of "community decision" I'd say, so I think it's > counter-productive to change them all again, except of course if > everyone on this list would strongly agree with "channels" > instead of "media" (which I personally don't, but I may be the > only one ;p). I don't like channels either, actually, i liked source,but I can live with media. > > - Add more sources/media/channels automatically > > I know that Mandrake will never implement this, but > > what the hell :) one can dream. > > The biggest problem with RpmDrake is that sources are > > still too complicated to configure. Therefore I > > Olivier Thauvin's easy-urpmi should be integrated in the media > configuration tool, when I have time :/ however I'm not very much > in favor of pushing newbies to use external packages (at the time > cooker was easily addable graphically, so many people broke their > system by trying to install "programs ugrades"). It would be really wonderful if it could be integrated. But make it difficult to add non-compatible sources (other arches, version, etc). d.
