On Tuesday 31 October 2000 11:54, you wrote:
> Jason Straight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > No, that's totally missing the point. That's what we do with Microsoft
> > and why we chose linux in the first place. I like Mandrake, and I've
> > used about every computer OS and distro ever made and Mandrake 7.2 gives
> > me more of what I ever wanted than anything I have ever used, and
> > consumers trying to voice opinion's to help preserve the goodness that
> > is Mandrake-Linux shouldn't be told Fuck it. If I didn't care what
>
> I told you that because I'm very angry that everyone on this list and on
> the forum keep saying that we lied, that we are selling the rc1 which is
> WORSE than final which is available for free.
Well, the fact is it's less. KDE is less stable ( just quirqy), and there are
a few missing packages from the basic download distro.
> Our point is that, OKAY the download edition is overally better than the
> retail version.. BECAUSE WE HAD TIME TO PUT IN THE 2.0 OF KDE2.
And that's great, and I applaud you for it. I like KDE2, actually was a
windowmaker man till now - but KDE2 is ok.
> Unfortunately we COULD NOT do that for retail version in time. Who do you
> want to blame? Us? kde2 team?..
I want to blame whoever is responsible for not making clear the differences
between the packages, and as of right now I can't find anywhere on the
mandrake webpage that lists any real information on 7.2, not to mention the
differences between the different versions of 7.2. How is anyone to know that
what they get off the shelf is any different than what they would download?
It doesn't say KDE1.99 or gkrellm not included, etc...
> Real naming scheme is: retail version is final 7.2 ; download version is
> final 7.2 with updates such as kde 2.0 final.
That's all cool, but there should be something that tells the user that other
than installing and going, "oh shit, this isn't what I could have downloaded".
There's a lack of communication between distributor and customer here that
customers won't appreciate at all. Somehow it would be nice to know the shelf
version is different than that of the download one.
Maybe chaning the release version of 7.2 on the download to 7.2b or
something. Anything to note a difference would be nice. It doesn't even give
the damn version of KDE on the box so how was I or Greg to know that what we
would get from the $25 box would be less than what we get from downloading? I
don't care that it is, just that there's no way to know it. Share the info,
that's what's important, we have an open operating system here, but don't
even have open information between the distributor and the consumer.
>
> The retail version, that was once put on the ftp sites for free as rc1, is
> a GOOD version, and it's 99% close to the one that you find now for free
> as Download Edition of 7.2. Its name is now final 7.2, because Release
> Candidates are "candidates to become the official release". Nothing more
> nothing less!!
>
> In the European version, because it's a bit more expensive due to phone
> support included, we even include a free update for kde2 final, sent on
> CD's to every customers who will have bought the retail version. In the US
> unfortunately the product priced $25 is too cheap to permit that, so we
> have to hope that the free downloads from MandrakeUpdate will please
> customers.
This is kewl, and I have to hand it to you - I am a die hard shell junkie
when using rpm and urpmi, but Mandrake update and drakeconf rock.
> [...]
>
> > I realize you have deadlines to meet and people to pay - like I said in
> > my other post I used to be a manager of Wal-Mart, so I know when it
> > comes to running a business that in reality the $ does come first. If
> > you have no $'s you have no people, and if you have no people you have
> > no product to get $'s.
>
> But not to the point to release a bad product and lie to the customers.
To us (the customers) a lie is pretty much anytime the truth isn't 100%
clear, like it or not, that's the way it is.
> > But when it comes to the products image being jeopardized I hope you
> > guys made the right decision. Hopefully there won't be a big stink about
>
> A point to clear: not MY nor developpers' decision here. I'm just taking
> time here to put up some explanations, because I'm feeling really sad that
> you all guys on this list begin to consider us as lyers and bad
> customers-related behaviour company..
We are sad too, and that's why we are still here writing, not on a debian or
bsd list now. We need you to keep us informed of the versioning differences,
a lot of us are your best sales people, I don't only use Mandrake, I preach
it. And a lot of people in this area know I know my share about this stuff
and take my word for it.
>
> > the fact that the shelf version that people fork out $25 for isn't as
> > good as the version they can dl for free. Next time around you might
>
> I heard that this has been the case for Redhat for long. In real world,
> the version on the net can be updated in 5 seconds, the one on the shelves
> in 6 months if you consider WalMart.
Hehe, please let's not compare Red-Hat to Mandrake anymore ;) The only thing
you have in common with them anymore in my eyes is the fact that you both use
rpm. You have surpassed Red-Hat many times over.
> So how could the retail version be newer/better? That's simply impossible,
> and our best customer support is to put the final kde2 version on the
> download edition; think about it: we could have put the kde-1.99 in the
> download edition to prevent from such comparisons with the retail version.
> We simply could't provide such a bad service to our users, just because
> time schedule is missing a couple of weeks! It was possible to put kde-2.0
> final in 7.2 on the web so we put the update in the version.
We appreciate this, kde 1.99 in rc had it's issues. Let's face it if it
didn't there would have been any need to change to 2.0. I totally agree with
different versions, couldn't care less about it, I do care that I had no way
of knowing what to expect.
> Only solution to have boxes in time was to put the 1.99 which IS a good
> version, and you have the updates.. I can't explain better..
>
> > In the future maybe a different versioning system would help alleviate
> > this also. 7.00 might be on the shelf at Wal-Mart while 7.01 on ftp. At
> > least something on the box so no one can claim they were lied to.
>
> No because in that case WalMart could not have the 7.01 and customers
> would ask for it..
This is also true.
I guess probably the only way to do it is to put an announcement page up for
releases and keep it current, when you released 7.2 as final or even days
before ( you must have known Wal-Mart wasn't going to have the same stuff
some days ahead of time), announce that on all the mandrake mail lists and on
the webpage. Most people who buy from Wal-Mart aren't going to be on these
lists anyway, and those that are and who don't get informed of the
differences.... Well, we know what happens in that case now.
If everyone on these lists had known about this ahead of time we either would
have been prepared for it when we bought it, or we would have not bought it.
Maybe a mail to the list announcing the freeze of the USA retail version but
also announcing the FTP version's ongoing updates would have helped.
An FAQ entry for this might be in order too. So future joiners of the cooker
list will know the upcoming release will be different from what's on the
shelves when it goes stable. Maybe a cooker FAQ that get's mailed to the list
every week or so? Annoying maybe, but clear things up - most likely.
I'm about out of ideas but communication is the only thing that would have
prevented this.
--
Movie: The Sixth Sense
"I see dumb people... they're everywhere.
They walk around like everyone else.
They don't even know that they're dumb."
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ 1796276
