On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 09:56:40PM -0400, Steve Hersey wrote: > >>Chuck Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>This is very poor public > relations for Mandrake that really should be fixed by >> whoever has the > authority to get the bug reporting mechanism for beta and RC >> releases in > place..... > > Well, at some points developper has to choose between > developing and > answering all the incomplete, unuseful, or already fixed bug > report. > > If you are not answered it is mainly because your bug reports are > not > relevant, or because you are not doing enough job for us to fix > more > easily. > > Warly, I REALLY must take exception to your statements here. I challenge you > to tell me what is "incomplete, unuseful, or already fixed" about the THREE > bugs I posted to Bugzilla (#s 79, 119, 122) that have gone unexamined. Some > of these bugs may presently be unfixable, but leaving the reports in Limbo is > a lousy response to them, and discourages those who trouble to report bugs at > all. (Clearly not just me...)
While I haven't looked at these particular bugs. I'd have to point out bug reports that I myself have submitted that included fixes that I had to chase the maintainer to bother to apply. The TMOUT bug in the setup package (in fact in this case it was Warly). Despite the fix being well known and included in the 8.2 errata, having an updated setup package in 8.2's updates it took probably 5 or 6 emails and finally getting downright nasty before Warly bothered to even reply. Let alone applying the patch. Fact is Mandrake's developer's routinely ignore bug reports, including good ones with solutions. And in the case of the setup package. Despite having spent a day figuring out the problem and numerous emails reminding Warly to fix the package, I still didn't get credit. Go figure. It's a real problem. But since Mandrake doesn't have a real bug reporting system (bugzilla is mostly just ignored) no one is held accountable for closing their bugs. Which means bugs fall through the cracks. Things sit in peoples inboxes waiting for a response... And that shouldn't surprise us. Now the Mandrake folks (Warly especially) will chime in that most of the bug reports are worthless and that they don't have time to sit around and read them. But I have to wonder. How is it that KDE and Mozilla among numerous other projects have time to deal with far more worthless bug reports than Mandrake is likely to deal with. It can't take them all that long to close a bad bug report with just that comment. And I'm sure some of us if given rights to update the database would be happy to help filter through some of those bug reports. Truth is Mandrake's developers do not follow well known and established best practices of the development industry. The lack of a well bug reporting database that's used isn't the only case. Go take a look at the CVS changelog entries for kdelibs, they are utterly worthless messages. Or how about the numerous packages that get uploaded that won't even install or have big problems (locales package from earlier this year that broke lots of stuff). While it's nice that Mandrake has an open development process. They seem to be under the impression that an open process is a replacement for good development practices. Until someone realizes that it isn't. It's very unlikely that anything is going to change. The only way you're going to get anything fixed is by being a royal pain in the ass and making a big fuss. I save my bug report emails and periodically check to see if things have been resolved. If not I resend them to the list. And after the 2nd or 3rd sending I starting getting really loud about it if there is a known resolution. If people want that to change then perhaps we should boycott submitting bug reports on the list until Mandrake's developers take bugzilla or some other bug reporting system (anthill perhaps) seriously. I'm up for it. I'll just put up a page on my site with fixed packages and bug reports. Make Mandrake work harder to get things fixed. But I'm unlikely to do this on my own. P.S. And before someone jumps on my case about boycotting Mandrake. I'm a Mandrake shareholder. I'm not doing it because I'm a troll. I'd be doing it because I think it's in Mandrake's best interest to improve their development practices. -- Ben Reser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://ben.reser.org Never take no as an answer from someone who isn't authorized to say yes.
