-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Charlie wrote: > On February 27, 2003 11:28 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: >>>>>c) Fix your DNS. > > > Good idea for the development version and the people that are putting this new > release together; but a bit too much for a lot of end users that just expect > things to work.
No one ever said this should not work out-the-box. > Or did I misunderstand that the call was for people to > actually test the Release Candidates (and betas) under every day conditions? > Yes, with the idea of trying to find what is wrong in different environments, and find how to fix things so they work everywhere. No-one guarantees everything will work on betas/rcs. > >>>No, on here machine, zeroconf should work (I am sure I wrote that >>>somewhere in this mail) if she has a network card in it. If there is >>>*no* network interface anywhere on the machine, then it *may* be >>>necessary to add an entry to /etc/hosts. > > > Probably. The real world result; many that were willing to test the betas and > the RCs have screamed loud and often about "No internet connection!". In my > case I had a 'net connection but no DNS servers to resolve names. I managed > to get it working by reading (lurking) here but how many will just say [EMAIL PROTECTED] > it and go elsewhere for an OS if the solution is "too complex?" If you can't hack your own /etc/resolv.conf, you need to consider whether you should be beta-testing at all ... really. Screaming because there is one piece of broken software (tmdns I think must not have been allowing DNS to fail over to the next server) is really childish for beta-testers. You should *expect* breakage, and be willing to work around it (ie, you should have another way of connecting to the net to post a bug, search the mailing list etc). > >>Hal la freeking luya the man had an epiphany. Yes, there are millions >>of computers in use around the world that don't have ethernet cards. > > > Or no modem but a single broadband connection. SSDD (same s... etc.); both > situations are nothing like a corporate environment. How about people not > "connected" at all. I know a few. > > In this particular instance my box is the only connected device I own with any > interactive interface more complex than a remote control or a dial pad and > handset. I have no router, no hub or switch; [...] > I just want to be able to buy > install and use Mandrake, without having to go back to school to learn how to > configure the damned internet connection. Is that too much to ask? No, but there is no way it is going to be that solid if people are not prepared to help find the best solutions to problems like this. > >>>I was *only* answering James's problem with a network with hundreds on >>>unix servers. And in that case, someone is not doing their job right if >>>DNS does not work right (there will be many other problems too). >> >>I'm not having a problem.. I am stating the Zero-Conf doesn't buy me >>much but then neither does k-mail... > > > End users don't give a rosy rodent's rump for 'local host name,' Did I say they should? If you note carefully, I was proposing reducing the current status of 2 fields for hostnames, to just one "Computer name". > or dhcpcd vs > dhclient or zeroconf or whatever the hell. They just want to install, boot, > surf, read e-mail, and play. If this is supposed to be a desktop OS it would > seem that the tools and configurations should be as automatic as it's > possible to make them. Idiot simple; like me. Sure, but for that to be the case they need to work: 1)In a corporate network with dhcp/dns working 2)On a home machine with a small network 3)On a home machine with no network and possibly more. Hardcoding 'localhost.localdomain' into /etc/hosts is not a viable solution for 2 or 3. The user figures out how to change their hostname (via some other tool) and suddenly everything is broken again. > > I'm very glad there are people such as yourselves "busting their humps" to > make things "work out o' the box;" but there are far too many times that I > read "This is _not a support list_; fix it yourself, submit a patch, > 'worthless, learn to write a bug report' and *go away*" messages. The thinly > veiled (or blatantly open in many cases) contempt for the lowly end user is > still rampant almost everywhere in the IT industry, including the "Open > Source World," and it's that kind of shit that kills companies. Award winning > skills and work are mostly cancelled by crap attitudes. Well, guess what? This is *not* a support list. If you have issues with that, file a bug at https://qa.mandrakesoft.com and vote for it. The majority of posters on this list do provide patches, and people ranting about issues that are known, but not yet solved just waste developers time. It is not that we do not like end-users (but we probably have enough of them to deal with on our own systems), it is that it is more efficient to have everyone who posts on the list actually be able to debug something and/or provide patch or more insight. 100 people saying "it also does not work here" is of no value (rather go vote in bugzilla). >>>I thought people on this list try and help fix things so they work >>>better for everyone, rather than just telling each other what hacks they >>>had to do to get it working (which is what I expect on the newbie list). > > > More of the endless contempt for anyone unwilling to; or incapable of, > development/coding/programming. Ask the same questions on a different forum (newbie/expert/MandrakeClub/Mandrakeusers.org/Mandrakeexpert.com etc) and I would give you a different answer (and I do ... google a bit and you will see), one which is aimed at getting your *personal* problems with Mandrake (or samba if you ask on [EMAIL PROTECTED]) solved as quickly as possible. But this is not a support list. > I think I've ranted more than enough for a luser that can't help fix anything. > Going away without being told. > Most intelligent statement so far. But ,please go and vote for bug 1583, and test the next rc (Fred seems to have done something to fix this mess), and post in the same bug whether it works better or not. Buchan - -- |--------------Another happy Mandrake Club member--------------| Buchan Milne Mechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work +27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+X7wqrJK6UGDSBKcRAk7GAKCdTeOUgQXmQYR7RnNCZ66bmJGEQQCgjzFG 3+aGbFHCUFpLox1GPyZe9cI= =NdyK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
