On 7/20/19 3:20 AM, Tomasz Gajc wrote:
Same question as always. Do you have any logs? Anything that may help ?
You were informed many times to provide logs, still none you gave. So
either decisions are made based on rumors (some people told me that...,
there were signs that...) or real bug reports with provided data that
allows to run some diagnosis.
No That is off topic to this discussion.
This discussion is about following policy. Apologies about not making
that more clear in the title.
iwd is just an example of a failure to communicate, discuss, and agree
on a major change. Our communications are broken and in desperate need
of fixing.
pt., 19 lip 2019, 19:45 użytkownik Ben Bullard <benbullar...@cox.net
<mailto:benbullar...@cox.net>> napisał:
Hello everyone,
This issue points out that we need to have a serious discussion about
how we are or aren't communicating.
On or about May 31 a number of us found our wifi broken. Turned out to
be an upgrade to networkmanager forcing implementation of iwd. Enough
people lost wifi to provoke a group discussion on IRC @
#openmandriva-cooker. We as a group agreed that iwd was not ready to
implement by default in OpenMandriva because there are to many chip
sets
that won't work with it at this time. These 2 commits:
https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/omdv-build-iso/commit/8031648fbd8940fa95cc6bb568a90259741f412e
https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/networkmanager/commit/baaf20639a956488e99ccfe338e7255c1dc70209
Please get that. The contributors group on IRC discussed as a group and
agreed as a group on something. Both developers and QA-Team members
were
present and in agreement. This was a group decision not one person
acting alone.
Fast forward to yesterday, July 18, and when I go on IRC there are
people discussing this again? What? "We already discussed this and
agreed on this!" Well it turns out this change got pushed again.
Apparently without any discussion or agreement that I'm aware of. There
was a commit 16 days ago on github but I would have thought that since
no one agreed with that and the issue was not discussed the commit
would
and should sit there until it was discussed and either agreed on or
disagreed on. In other words I thought the published policy would be
followed. The published policy does include "waiting for others to
accept it".
What published policy? This:
https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Policies/Repository_Policies
Which includes the following:
"
= Cooker =
Cooker is an experimental branch that can break at times. Most things
are ok to do here, including updating to a beta version or even a
git/svn/cvs/hg/whatever snapshot of an upstream package.
To make sure you don't "surprise" other developers by breaking
everything for them, major changes need to be coordinated by either:
* bringing them up in a TC meeting
* sending a pull request on the repository and waiting for others to
accept it
* sending an email to the cooker ML and waiting for others' positive
reply
Changes that need coordination include, but are not limited to
* switching out a major system component for something else (e.g. Xorg
-> wayland, Qt 5 -> Qt 6, wpa_supplicant -> iwd, systemd -> any other
init system, ...) -- any such change should be tested in a personal
repository first.
* update that will require a load of rebuilds (e.g. updating libpng
to a
version with a new soname)
* dropping a package used by many things (e.g. dropping qt5 when qt6 is
out and has been stabilized)
* changes that are likely to break other people's hardware
Cooker is usually open for all types of development, but can be frozen
at some times to consolidate efforts on one branch."
IMO changes like "(e.g. Xorg -> wayland, Qt 5 -> Qt 6,
wpa_supplicant ->
iwd, systemd -> any other init system, ...)" should not be
discovered by
users or contributors after a system update. This stuff really, really,
really, needs to be discussed on and agreed on as a group. To do
this we
need to all be communicating in the same place.
We might also need to consider tightening things further and make it
policy that such "major system component" changes simply should not be
made until they are announced in TC-Meeting so people are not surprised
by such changes. The advantage to announcing these and other changes in
TC-Meeting is that there are written logs which one would hope would
eliminate any confusion or disagreement.
So for NetworkManager we need to again revert the changes made to what
we as a group agreed upon. Agreed because iwd still does not work
with a
lot of chipsets. If this is something to be tried in Cooker so
developers can work on it then this should be discussed and
announced so
others using cooker aren't surprised after upgrading a package as
happened to many folks yesterday.
And as a group we need to discuss the absolute paramount importance of
following this documentation:
https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Policies/Repository_Policies, if
not in
fact modifying this as suggested to include announcing major changes in
TC-Meeting.
Note: The statement or comment "iwd still does not work with a lot of
chipsets" is made because this is what more than one developer has
told me.
Ben Bullard
ben79
--------------------
OpenMandriva-QA Team
--
Cooker mailing-list
https://www.openmandriva.org/lists
--
Ben Bullard
ben79
--------------------
OpenMandriva-QA Team
--
Cooker mailing-list
https://www.openmandriva.org/lists
