Aaaah   .. interesting   …a touch of rehabilitation!

Many thanks.

James

From: ECardwell <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2024 8:29 PM
To: Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList <[email protected]>
Cc: Elwyn Soutter <[email protected]>; James Huey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Enniskillen Gaol School

The pupils were the gaol inmates.  These schools were operating at a time when 
very few prisoners could read and write, so this was felt to be beneficial to 
the system.    Some of the parliamentary reports on prisons list the numbers 
participating, with occasional mentions of the school masters names.
Evelyn
Get BlueMail for Android<https://bluemail.me>
On 24 Aug 2024, at 02:14, James Huey via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
 wrote:
Thanks, Elwyn  …   but that prompts the question: just who were the in-gaol 
school’s pupils?




James


From: Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2024 3:48 AM
To: Karen Miller via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Elwyn Soutter <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Enniskillen Gaol School



In my experience, in Ireland, children were not kept in prison. They would have 
been left with relatives or failing that the Poor Law system. And male and 
female prisoners would have been in separate jails/gaols too.







Elwyn






On Friday 23 August 2024 at 15:58:18 BST, Karen Miller via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
 wrote:




Len Sweeney kindly sent me a condensed copy of the topic thread as I was having 
difficulty following it.  I was glad to read the Cunningham snippet was from an 
article in JSTOR.  I have access to that source through my public library but 
it doesn't open up for me automatically.  James raised a question I hadn’t 
considered.  Did the inmates' children live in prison along with their 
incarcerated parents? Could the GAOL school have been for them?  Little Dorrit, 
in which a girl was born and raised in Marshalsea prison comes to mind.  
Dickens’ book was about 1855 I think.  Not that far off from the date of the 
document discussed in this post.  Thank you all for the thoughtful discussion.


Karen Miller
Wilmette, Illinois, USA

On Aug 23, 2024, at 2:30 AM, 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
 wrote:


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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1 (ECardwell)
  2. Gaol School (Karen Miller)
  3. Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1 (Len Swindley)
  4. Re: Gaol School (Len Swindley)
  5. Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1 (James Huey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 12:29:37 +0100
From: ECardwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564,
Issue 1
To: Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, 
James Huey
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Message-ID: 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----PCTKJ5WCFSM4YSCZZ4CX5I36H3MMCG"

Irish language medium schools are a very recent development.  The word Gaol 
was/is an alternative spelling for jail.
IncidentallyJohn Cunningham is a well recognised  Fermanagh historian,  his 
numerous books are a very good resource for anyone interested in the history of 
County Fermanagh.

Evelyn

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On 22 Aug 2024, 01:25, at 01:25, James Huey via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
 wrote:
Liam’s explanation is more credible. Maybe Cunningham made an incorrect
assumption ??


James

From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 7:33 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
 James McKane
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue
1

Liam, this is an incorrect assumption. Please refer to the snip below:
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

[cid:[email protected]]

________________________________
From: Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 6:14 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Cc: Liam Ó Cuinn 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue
1


This is a Gaelscoil. Irish language medium school.



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows



From: Karen Miller via
CoTyroneList<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Dé Céadaoin 21 Lúnasa 2024 13:59
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Karen Miller<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue
1



I was startled to see a Gaol School mentioned in the list of schools in
Enniskillen.  I have not seen this type of entry in the other published
lists.  Does anyone know how or why this school was established?  Were
the students primarily adults or does this type of school imply
children were incarcerated as well?



Karen Miller

Wilmette, Illinois, USA



Sent from my iPad



On 21 Aug 2024, at 2:30 AM,
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Today's Topics:



1. New Content - Schools in Enniskillen Parish, County Fermanagh,
Northern Ireland 1835

   (James McKane)





----------------------------------------------------------------------



Message: 1

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 04:48:11 -0400

From: James McKane 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>

Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Schools in Enniskillen

 Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland 1835

To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List"

<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>

Message-ID:

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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

 boundary="0000000000005daac30620197e47"



Schools in Enniskillen Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland 1835

<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/schools/enniskillen.html>



Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!



Jim McKane

Kitchener, Ontario

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 07:30:21 -0500
From: Karen Miller <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Gaol School
To: 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Message-ID: 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Thanks to Liam for clarifying the meaning of the word “Gaol” in the list of 
Enniskillen schools.  Makes much more sense.

Karen Miller

Sent from my iPad

On 22 Aug 2024, at 2:30 AM, 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
 wrote:

This is a Gaelscoil. Irish language medium school

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 12:34:20 +0000
From: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564,
Issue 1
To: James Huey <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, 
CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>,
 James McKane
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>,     EVELYN CARDWELL 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Message-ID:  <[email protected]
P216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM<mailto:[email protected]%0bP216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>>
Content-Type: multipart/related;        boundary="_004_SL2P216MB2047FF
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type="multipart/alternative"

Thanks for that Evelyn; your insights are always valued and Gaol was the only 
accepted form of spelling until recent years down here in Australia. And yes, 
there was indeed a school in the Enniskillen Gaol confirmed by:
Extracted from Lewis’ Topographical Dictionary of Ireland (1837)
Enniskillen:
The county gaol, built about 20 years since, is near the town, on the Dublin 
road: it. is on the radiating plan, with the governor’s house in the centre, 
and will contain 120 prisoners; the number of cells is 36, of which four are 
for females; and there are five day-rooms, seven airing yards, a treadmill, 
hospital, and school.
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
________________________________
From: James Huey <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 10:24 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
 James McKane <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: RE: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1


Liam’s explanation is more credible. Maybe Cunningham made an incorrect 
assumption ??





James



From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 7:33 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
 James McKane <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1



Liam, this is an incorrect assumption. Please refer to the snip below:

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia



[cid:[email protected]]



________________________________

From: Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 6:14 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Cc: Liam Ó Cuinn 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1



This is a Gaelscoil. Irish language medium school.



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows



From: Karen Miller via 
CoTyroneList<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Dé Céadaoin 21 Lúnasa 2024 13:59
To: 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Karen Miller<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1



I was startled to see a Gaol School mentioned in the list of schools in 
Enniskillen.  I have not seen this type of entry in the other published lists.  
Does anyone know how or why this school was established?  Were the students 
primarily adults or does this type of school imply children were incarcerated 
as well?



Karen Miller

Wilmette, Illinois, USA



Sent from my iPad



On 21 Aug 2024, at 2:30 AM, 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>
 wrote:



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Today's Topics:



 1. New Content - Schools in Enniskillen Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern 
Ireland 1835

    (James McKane)





----------------------------------------------------------------------



Message: 1

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 04:48:11 -0400

From: James McKane 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>

Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Schools in Enniskillen

  Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland 1835

To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List"

  
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>

Message-ID:

  
<cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com%3cmailto:cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com>>>

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

  boundary="0000000000005daac30620197e47"



Schools in Enniskillen Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland 1835

<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/schools/enniskillen.html>



Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!



Jim McKane

Kitchener, Ontario

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 12:36:05 +0000
From: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Gaol School
To: 
"[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>"
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Karen Miller <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Message-ID:  <[email protected]
P216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM<mailto:[email protected]%0bP216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;    boundary="_000_SL2P216MB20474B
F4D88F44B73339C9D1E08F2SL2P216MB2047KORP_"

Karen,
Please refer to both Evelyn's and my responses
Len Swindley
________________________________
From: Karen Miller via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 10:30 PM
To: 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Karen Miller <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Gaol School

Thanks to Liam for clarifying the meaning of the word “Gaol” in the list of 
Enniskillen schools.  Makes much more sense.

Karen Miller

Sent from my iPad

On 22 Aug 2024, at 2:30 AM, 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
 wrote:

This is a Gaelscoil. Irish language medium school
=================================
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 12:51:15 +0000
From: James Huey <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564,
Issue 1
To: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, 
CoTyroneIreland.com
Mailing List   
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>,
 James McKane
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>,     EVELYN CARDWELL 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Message-ID:  <[email protected]
P282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM<mailto:[email protected]%0bP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>>
Content-Type: multipart/related;        boundary="_004_SYYP282MB1246B7
99F8523E2C85192793B48F2SYYP282MB1246AUSP_";
type="multipart/alternative"

All very fascinating and I bow to the wisdom of the historians. It does, 
however, prompt the imagination:   were the school’s pupils/students the 
children of gaol inmates?  Did they live in the gaol as well, with their 
parents (fathers/mothers) ?   Interesting from a social perspective, how it all 
must have worked.

James

From: Len Swindley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 10:34 PM
To: James Huey <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; 
CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
 James McKane <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; EVELYN CARDWELL 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1

Thanks for that Evelyn; your insights are always valued and Gaol was the only 
accepted form of spelling until recent years down here in Australia. And yes, 
there was indeed a school in the Enniskillen Gaol confirmed by:
Extracted from Lewis’ Topographical Dictionary of Ireland (1837)
Enniskillen:
The county gaol, built about 20 years since, is near the town, on the Dublin 
road: it. is on the radiating plan, with the governor’s house in the centre, 
and will contain 120 prisoners; the number of cells is 36, of which four are 
for females; and there are five day-rooms, seven airing yards, a treadmill, 
hospital, and school.
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
________________________________
From: James Huey 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 10:24 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>;
 James McKane 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Cc: Len Swindley 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Subject: RE: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1


Liam’s explanation is more credible. Maybe Cunningham made an incorrect 
assumption ??





James



From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 7:33 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>;
 James McKane 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Cc: Len Swindley 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1



Liam, this is an incorrect assumption. Please refer to the snip below:

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia



[cid:[email protected]]



________________________________

From: Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2024 6:14 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Cc: Liam Ó Cuinn 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1



This is a Gaelscoil. Irish language medium school.



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows



From: Karen Miller via 
CoTyroneList<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Dé Céadaoin 21 Lúnasa 2024 13:59
To: 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Karen Miller<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 1564, Issue 1



I was startled to see a Gaol School mentioned in the list of schools in 
Enniskillen.  I have not seen this type of entry in the other published lists.  
Does anyone know how or why this school was established?  Were the students 
primarily adults or does this type of school imply children were incarcerated 
as well?



Karen Miller

Wilmette, Illinois, USA



Sent from my iPad



On 21 Aug 2024, at 2:30 AM, 
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 wrote:



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Today's Topics:



 1. New Content - Schools in Enniskillen Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern 
Ireland 1835

    (James McKane)





----------------------------------------------------------------------



Message: 1

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 04:48:11 -0400

From: James McKane 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>

Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Schools in Enniskillen

  Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland 1835

To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List"

  
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>

Message-ID:

  
<cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com%3cmailto:cadp7hviak_8neevxgt+r_ex-ew-a3yv6pyiyuccvfhgbun1...@mail.gmail.com>>>

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

  boundary="0000000000005daac30620197e47"



Schools in Enniskillen Parish, County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland 1835

<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/schools/enniskillen.html>



Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!



Jim McKane

Kitchener, Ontario

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