Agreed with everything said here so far, from all sides. One more bit from the middle:
I've been talking with our members who ride the fence...they're working from a coworking facility, but working a) remote for company full time or b) using coworking as a retreat from the regular office. I think with these commercial endeavors, we have an opportunity to, as Steve said, do some education. Its a huge part of my personal mission, and I think is a huge opportunity for this movement to affect EVERY workplace. Enough from my soap box. That said... The big turn off with THIS particular message (Geoff and I discussed it when it came through off line) is what Tara hit on the head: "Promoting one's space before asking that question". That's similar to talking about brands and tools at a Barcamp (or any other user generated conference)...depending on the crowd, the crowd will "mod" that stuff up or down. I've even heard of people having clickers or some other noisemakers when someone on stage is being self promotional. This seems extreme, but is a good example of the power of a community. They decide, individually and together, what they want and don't want. In this case, someone modded this message down as "self promotional". Having a diverse group of moderators would do this list a lot of good...rather than make it "elite" to join, give some responsibility to people who have interest and will step up to help curb things that might be viewed as abuse of the list. Also, having a defined list of things that could be defined as abuse and posting them on the home page for the list would give any kind of abuse-curbing actions clout. "You broke the rules". The question is still, who makes the rules? That becomes really difficult to define (not impossible, just difficult) in the starfish organization. Maybe you have some thoughts on that, Tara? -Alex On 9/24/07, Tara Hunt < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > Although I understand where you are coming from, I guess I need to tell > you where we are coming from to. > > Although we want people to see this list as a resource to ask questions > and talk about their spaces (getting stuff out of the community), I also > want to encourage people to contribute to the list in a helpful manner > (giving back to the community). Certainly, there will be more takers than > givers, but when someone takes, then runs, we need to say something about > it. Mostly just to keep it in check. Perhaps Chris was too harsh in his > response, but he's also been dealing with a great deal of spam on the wiki, > etc. so he is more sensitive to it. > > We've been more than welcoming to commercial projects. In fact, we hope > there are more! But some commercial projects aren't coworking spaces. They > just aren't. Not because they are commercial, but because they don't embody > the core that makes a space a coworking space. There IS a difference between > an office share/executive suite and a coworking space and if there wasn't > there wouldn't have been a need for coworking. > > I'm sad that you see this as a castle of Chris and Tara. I like to see it > as a castle of Chris and Tara and Alex and Noel and Amit and Nate and > Sanford and Eva and David and Dane and Eddie and Dave Doolin and Marcus and > Ryanne and Jay and everyone else who has started a space and want to > maintain it's integrity. > > There is a fine balance to be struck between openness and a hodge-podge. > All open source projects have strong leadership with tight guidelines. Very > few have any tolerance of self-promoters. Yes, we would love to see all > spaces turn into warm and fuzzy coworking spaces, and they can feel free to > join the list and discuss with us what it means to be one of those spaces > and we'd be happy to help them become one of those spaces. Promoting one's > space before asking that question isn't really the same thing, though. > > I think a code of conduct is restrictive and we'd prefer to deal with it > on a case by case level. This isn't a centralized organization. It's very > 'starfish' and you have as much right to dictate conduct as we do (that is > why we can have this conversation - we don't set rules). However, we have > published the core values of what we think coworking is and others have > agreed, so perhaps we can point people who do 'drive-by' promotions to that? > > > Tara > > > > > On 9/24/07, Chris Messina < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > > Thanks for the feedback. I certainly don't think of coworking as the > > "Castle of Chris and Tara" and I hope that others who feel strongly > > about the culture of coworking will assert themselves when foreign > > objects that smell like spam show up on the list. > > > > We have over 750 people subscribed to this list and I don't want to > > waste their time and have their energies expended on "mosquitos" who > > show up with something to sell and nothing to offer. > > > > That said, you're right. When "newbies" show up and show a general > > interest in coworking, in how it works, in what the values are and > > what the original goals are, they absolutely deserve light treatment, > > support, our encouragement and attention. > > > > On the other hand, someone who joins the list and immediately launches > > into a pitch for their space, and who has nothing to do with coworking > > or with the community, doesn't deserve, at least, my time. And > > insomuch as I helped to start this list and am an admin of the list, > > feel some responsibility to make sure that the environment is > > maintained and doesn't devolve into a place for constant commercial > > pitches. > > > > If indeed the unsigned poster of that email comes back and is > > interested in learning more about coworking, I would be happy to take > > the time to introduce them to the ideas and principles of coworking. > > What I won't stand for, however, is people showing up and showing > > disrespect to the community that we've all invested ourselves in and > > spent a great of time nurturing into a vibrant collective. > > > > Nothing in that spam message said anything about community or > > coworking; what place does it have on a mailing list dedicated to both > > of those topics? > > > > Chris > > > > > > On 9/24/07, Steve Purkiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > No, indeed for some, clothing third world kids with their old > > wallpaper is > > > enough to feed the conversations whilst sipping over a coffee which > > alone > > > costs enough to feed that child for a week ;) > > > > > > How about lightening up on the 'newbies' into the arena - not everyone > > > > > 'knows the score', it is up to us to help them join in, not frighten > > them > > > off when they arrive at the Castle of Chris and Tara. > > > > > > This is one of the reasons Linux has had a huge problem in going > > mainstream > > > - the attitudes of 'those in the know'. > > > > > > Relax, chill, educate, inform, welcome with open minds and hearts. > > Even > > > those looking for 'wimmin' are still one of us, for we are all one. > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > > On 9/25/07, Chris Messina <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Coworking spaces don't spam their members or use bulk email to > > promote > > > > themselves. > > > > > > > > If you're interesting in participating and contributing to the > > > > community, we're more than welcome to hear from you; drive-by > > postings > > > > to this list will be considered spam. > > > > > > > > I look forward to your feedback, and ask that you, in the future, > > you > > > > refrain from posting self-promotional emails to the list without > > > > balancing your correspondence with positive contributions to the > > > > larger coworking community. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > On 9/24/07, My Day Office < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My Day Office is now open in downtown Seattle. Tired of meeting > > with > > > > > clients in coffee shops? Worn out running between the copy > > center, > > > > > mailbox and notary? Finally a workplace that has it all in one > > > > > place! From virtual offices to physical offices, My Day Office is > > > > > where work happens. My Day Office offers meeting solutions with > > open > > > > > work areas, private offices, and conference rooms; mailbox > > rentals; > > > > > shipping services; fax, copy and printing; and full secretarial > > > > > support with wifi and state of the art technology. Patrons may > > > > > become members and enjoy substantially discounted fees on rentals > > and > > > > > services. Costs are much lower than executive suites or other > > retail > > > > > mailbox or copy centers. For more information on the products and > > > > > services or to reserve a private office or conference room visit > > > > > www.MyDayOffice.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What makes us different? > > > > > > > > > > My Day office is a spacious and modern business center with > > expansive > > > > > windows that provide plenty of ambient light and a contemporary > > decor > > > > > with rich brown an blue tones. > > > > > > > > > > Our friendly staff can assist you with your paperwork, business > > plans, > > > > > answering phone calls and shipping. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A hot-house for up and coming entrepreneurs and great business > > minds, > > > > > My Day Office offers a series of business workshops and networking > > > > > > > events to give you the tools you need to take your business to the > > > > > next level. My Day Office is conveniently located at Elliott & > > Broad > > > > > across from the Spaghetti Factory and overlooks the Olympic > > Sculpture > > > > > Park. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Chris Messina > > > > Citizen Provocateur & > > > > Open Source Advocate-at-Large > > > > Work: http://citizenagency.com > > > > Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog > > > > Cell: 412 225-1051 > > > > IM: factoryjoe > > > > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private > > > > > > > > http://opennetworkers.pbwiki.com - open networker? add > > > your name to the list! > > > > http://open4.org - the network that pays you to participate > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevepurkiss - join my 500+ > > > LinkedIn network! > > > > http://www.open4.org/bio/steve-purkiss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chris Messina > > Citizen Provocateur & > > Open Source Advocate-at-Large > > Work: http://citizenagency.com > > Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog > > Cell: 412 225-1051 > > IM: factoryjoe > > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private > > > > > > > > > > > -- > tara 'miss rogue' hunt > co-founder & CMO > Citizen Agency ( www.citizenagency.com) > blog: www.horsepigcow.com > phone: 415-694-1951 > fax: 415-727-5335 > > > -- ----- -- ----- Alex Hillman web.developer.innovation.consultant vocal: 484.597.6256 digital: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | skype: dangerouslyawesome visual: www.weknowhtml.com | www.dangerouslyawesome.com local: www.indyhall.org --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. 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