Hey Jacob, Your comment on "corporate vs hippy" brings me to a conversation I had earlier today at jelly. A guy I met said that coworking spaces designed in a more corporate style were not in line with what true coworking is all about. Coming from the architectural and design world, we have been designing workspace for years With the psychology of its users in mind. What we know about psychology and design is always changing as humans are always changing. If space needed to be collaborative or if it needed to be quiet private space, design elements are deployed to create the behaviors and feelings desired for the space. In addition, many companies have begun to align their brands to their physical space (ie. Google). Many do so out of corporate loyalty strategy. With technology allowing people to work whenever and where ever they want, creating corporate space that excites, inspires and creates community and better collaboration many companies are finding to be the tool to strengthen the loyalty of their workforce. In a way, creating coworking within the companies physical structure. So, These conversations seem to demonize coworking spaces and the communities housed within that were created intentionally vs. accidentally. If "corporate" coworking means that the community is housed within carefully designed space that is aligned with the identity of the community within, then so be it. But the "corporate" world (ie. google) devised such an aesthetic out of the same necessities from which coworking is derived. On the flip side, if "hippy" coworking is defined as communities with a more ad hoc aesthetic, unplanned physical structure, and/or built as we grew, then congratulations to "hippy" coworkers to discovering by accident what those in my industry have been practicing for 1,000's of years.
Obviously, I agree with you that this conversation goes further than for profit vs. non profit. If you do look at the core of why we ALL do this, I hope it's for a profit of some kind. Whether monetary or measured in some other way. I hope the coworker writing code across the table all day and all night does so because it pays his bills at the end of the day. I think what is being demonized is that there are coworking businesses that derived from the innovating discovery that providing what so many of us are needing can be designed into a profitable business. Why it's ok to innovate in the tech Industry or other creative industry for profit and it's NOT ok for someone to innovate for profit in real estate, design, or community facilitation boggles my mind. As long as its "coworking" that is happening, it's all good. I've seen many come on board and fail quickly due to not having the right principles at heart....whether for profit or not...and that's the bottom line. Adrienne Sent from my iPad On Apr 4, 2012, at 5:19 PM, Jacob Sayles <[email protected]> wrote: > Wow Derek, way to get right to the heart of the matter! > > I think the "profit" conversation that comes up quite a bit is a little too > simplistic. As someone who's part of a strong, profitable coworking > community I often find the "corporate vs hippy" debate confusing. Derek's > point about priorities is pretty key though. Which is more important? Why > do we do what we do? We have a profitable business because our community > loves us and our community loves us because our hearts are in the right > place. It's a win-win and I love this kind of business. > > I've watched so many people try and explain this with words and it doesn't > quite do it justice. We try to define coworking as if that is going to solve > this problem once and for all. Now we are seeing qualifiers like "true > coworking" or "traditional coworking". I don't really know how to do any > better when limited to words. So personally I try to see where I can get > around words. Locally I invite people into our space and show them what we > are about first hand. Globally I contribute to the conversation here on the > google group, and put my energy into collaborative projects that help us all > succeed (shameless plug for the wiki project!). > > So that's what I'm doing... > > Jacob > > --- > Office Nomads - Individuality without Isolation > http://www.officenomads.com - (206) 323-6500 > > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Jerome Chang <[email protected]> wrote: > FaceBook has profit as a primary motivator and they have plenty of community. > I think profit and community can go hand-in-hand. Building a good community > requires resources - there is no free lunch. > > Believing that profit prevents authenticity would similarly accuse "wealthy" > people of lacking authenticity. Authenticity is the end result, not > dependent upon the means to get there. > > At the risk of speaking for Grind, I think that their efforts to "distance > themselves from the word coworking" is more of an attempt to distinguish > themselves from the rest of the 'competition', rather than actually not being > coworking. > > > Jerome > ______________ > BLANKSPACES > "work FOR yourself, not BY yourself" > > www.blankspaces.com > ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, > CA 90036 > > On Apr 4, 2012, at 2:27 PM, Derek Neighbors wrote: > >> Making profit is not bad. However, when it is the primary motivator for a >> space owner it certainly increases the friction in building community. I >> would say that its a directly proportional connection. The more important >> profit is to the space owner the more difficult it is for them to build real >> authentic community. >> >> I am neither advocating that one size fits all or that all space should not >> have monetary capital costs. However, when the majority of the spaces >> labeling themselves as coworking are less about community and more about >> profit we can't get confused or upset when community spaces actively >> distance themselves from the word coworking. >> >> -- >> Derek Neighbors >> Gangplank >> >> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Jerome Chang <[email protected]> wrote: >> Is making a profit for a business necessarily bad for the coworking >> community? >> Coworking has brought about great ways to collaborate, and to create >> community. Those kinds of intangible ideals will obviously manifest in many >> different ways. I don't think there is one "true" coworking, nor two or >> three, just as there is no one "true" art. >> >> >> Jerome >> ______________ >> BLANKSPACES >> "work FOR yourself, not BY yourself" >> >> www.blankspaces.com >> ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los >> Angeles, CA 90036 >> >> On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:02 PM, Derek Neighbors wrote: >> >>> Beth, >>> >>> As someone who also has distanced themselves from "coworking" I can >>> sympathize. Coworking as a fad has become largely about space owners >>> trying to make money running their "coworking business" and/or propagating >>> corporations are evil and freelancer nation will rule the world. All of >>> these things make building community more difficult in the long run. >>> >>> I think the initial incarnation of coworking was very much about community, >>> but it became a victim of its own success and now a days its hard to >>> distinguish most coworking spaces from shared office groups like Regus >>> other than more modern layout/furniture. >>> >>> I think that Alex at IndyHall, Tony at NewWorkCity and the good folks at >>> Office Nomads have made a great push in the last two years to try to get >>> things centered back around community and many others have stepped up and >>> started to turn the ship. >>> >>> So while many spaces sound like "true" coworking, they are still the >>> minority. What can we do to fix this? >>> >>> -- >>> Derek Neighbors >>> Gangplank >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Beth Buczynski <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I'm confused...Benjamin goes to such great lengths to say that Grind >>> isn't a coworking space because it's not "an incubator or an >>> accelerator" and that the "chairs, the tables, the real-estate, >>> renting a seat or a desk are secondary to constructing a strong >>> community." That sounds EXACTLY like true coworking to me! While >>> coworking spaces can act like incubators, the spaces that exist purely >>> to facilitate this aren't necessarily committed to the community >>> aspects that set coworking apart from every other type of work space. >>> On a related but unrelated note, Grind's pop-up coworking space during >>> SxSW was really great. Anyone else check it out? >>> >>> Beth >>> @gonecoworking >>> >>> On Apr 3, 8:07 pm, David Singer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > David Judson, the proprietor ofwww.mystartstory.com-- long form >>> > interview of founders of starups has included two piorneering >>> > coworking/collaborative workspace founders in his series: Benjamin >>> > Dyett, founder of Grind [www.grindspaces.com] and Jenifer Ross, >>> > Founder of W@tercooler [www.watercoolerhub.com]. I highly recommend >>> > these reads -- both of these individuals have inspired me to do a deep >>> > dive into exploring coworking on multiple levels. The links to the >>> > interviews are here: >>> > >>> > Benjamin Dyett: http://mystartstory.com/benjamin-dyett/ >>> > >>> > Jenifer Ross: http://mystartstory.com/jenifer-ross/ >>> > >>> > David A. Singerwww.twitter.com/davidasinger >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Coworking" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Coworking" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Coworking" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Coworking" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. 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