This is truly one of the most depressing exchanges I've
witnessed on this list - Pollyanna vs the most tired and
worn out version of marxism that there is. Can't both of you
spare us, really?
I believe myself that communism is the only possible future
and, unlike our correspondent here, that there are no
demonstrated 'sustainable solutions'. That is all just
gobbledygook managerialist jargon. Communism IS implicit in
the critique of capitalism - every word that Marx wrote
(he's important because he wrote the most comprehensive
critique of capitalism that we have) IS about communism.
Carrol's leninist version of marxism holds nothing for us.
As in zero, zilch, nought. I think we need to consider more
carefully if we are going to be 'imaginative' what it means
to be radical. This word 'radical' at this time means
starting over. It means for one thing going back to the
essential thought of Karl Marx himself. I am not an
anarchist but I am very much in favour of incorporating into
this radical COMMUNIST vision, which is our only future
worth living, some of the radicalism that I see now in the
anarchist movement. As far as I am concerned they are more
what communism is about, for all their naivety and
immaturity, and they represent exactly what has gone missing
during the long bolshevik twentieth century. Yes Lenin and
Mao were right about a few things (mainly about how to
advance capitalism in the more backward regions of the
world), but they led us down a blind alley and any marxist
who is still not prepared to acknowledge that, who is still
prepared to quote uncritically these old rightwing communist
bureaucrats who tried to force the workers' movement into a
'state capitalist' mould are just part of the problem. I
think there are lists for the remaining Stalinists,
Trotskyists, etc, to debate the hairsplitting and largely
imaginary differences between them, but this shouldn't be
one of those sorts of lists. It's got to be about something
new, and something that arises out of the most radical
critique of what we have had up until now.
Tahir
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 09/18 7:26 PM >>>
Carrol,
Thank you for further clarification on marxism.
I now realise clearly it seems to me to encourage more
involvement in
theorising, pontificating, and diatribes than either my
personality or
(my) llife has time for. I am drawn to new language new
perspectives. In
a vein of thought.
I am done with and have done the 'narrative' of my life
(raising,
feeding, parenting, caring-taking, of specific individuals
in the
world's population, those I (re)produced or who produced
me). I
dedicate my time for the rest of my life to designing or
modeling
sustainable solutions. Facilitating the implementation of
better-systems,
and supporting those systems that are already seen to be
working,
(sustainable) as part of my day to day comittment to be
being part of the
solution and not part of the problem..
As to the Struggle and the Crash, I prefer to WORK with the
Struggle. I
would rather see tired worn out systems fall away, being
dismantled, as
new and better ones burgeon simultaneously, than the
destruction of a
dam wall that surely washes away much more than what is
undesirable. I
am personally done with the talk, (unless it is new and
"imaginative")
it is time for the walk. There is an urgency to finding the
paths,
routes and roads to be walked. Being aware of crashes, and
sensing a
Crash, implies that Recovery plans are needed for the
latter yes, and
preventitive/healing systems for the former situations? If
we are not
motivated by the urgency (for solutions), then are we not
merely
'talkers'? 'How much talk does it take to change a plan? A
Plan?'
(rhetoric only) .
Or are we seeking to Inspire the New and Imaginative? To
inspire or
attract someone, like the inventor of the web or internet, (
my apologies
for not recalling or mentioning his name, help someone?) to
come up with
a powerfully positive creative concept that has the
qualities of
complexity , simplicity and immediacy of the information
highway? (Hah!
who said the Atlanteans were destoyed by their own
technolgy?)
( I suspect that when I do get to reading the simpol website
I may find
some examples of what I have in mind... simultaneous
actions)
With the impact on global dynamics of billions of dollars
changing
hands in nanoseconds, (on e commerce) there is an urgent
need for new
and imaginative thinking as the antidote and the safety net?
Right?
We need to develop and spread the 'infintely' small actions
that likewise
will create global dynamics ( we too have this tool for
sharing the
thought in nanoseconds). Like a counter-acting virus! A
healing-in-action!
We need Inspired Thought. What would be conducive to more of
the new and
inspirational on a list? CyberBrainstorming?
I thank you again Caroll for helping me to clarify at least
where I stand
within this crash discussion! (I have nothing particular
against
crystal balls, but in their absence give me compassionate
action any
day)jo*
Thank you also for reminding me of Rosa Luxemburg and
giving her credit
. The winter day I first learned of this remarkable woman I
had an
accident. Friends were astonished to see me arrive, with a
cane and a
limp at a movie on her life, thinking I was assuming her
gait
deliberately. I now refer to that significant winter as my
'Rosa
Luxemburg winter', continually and painfully reminded as I
was, for
months, of her life, her work, and her assasination. jo*
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:31:23 -0500 Carrol Cox
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Thankyou Carrol, for your response. I will mull on the
>ramifications of
>> this information. Under its self proclaimed marxist
leader, I
>wearied of
>> the daily impact of how marxism 'was'/'worked', in my
part of
>Africa.
>> Sustainable, I think not. jo*
>
>There is a statement Marx made late in life to a reporter
that also
>helps
>to get a grip on the core of marxism. At the end of the
interview,
>the
>reporter, probably half joking, asked, "What is?"
>
>After a long pause, Marx answered: "Struggle."
>
>Out of Marx's analysis of capitalism comes a recognition of
the
>necessity of socialism (in Rosa Luxemburg's framework:
socialism
>or barbarianism"), but Marx offered no recipes, no
blueprints for
>the future. Socialism is not a "system" installed the way
you install
>a new operating system in your computer. It is a field of
struggle.
>What it is can only be determined in the process of
struggle to
>overcome capitalism and in continual struggle (with no
guarantees
>of the outcome) to build socialism concretely. Marxists
have
>no crystal balls (Mao said that).
>
>Carrol
>
>
>
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