Writes Rob:
> Marx was an institutionalist par excellence (Tsuru calls him that, for
one),
> and for him capitalism was the institution par excellence. So on this
> reading it is not the grasping capitalist who has the power, but the
> exchange relation that underpins capitalist society.
Well, actually Rob *Nature* has the power ... and the apparent avoidance
of or lack of perception of that fact is what heated up this "value" thread
to begin with. It was not just an idle discussion about mechanisms within
the economy.
Tony has attempted to draw our attention to the true nature of the "exchange
relation", but his efforts are like slamming repeatedly into a brick wall of
denial ... or ignorance. Exchange value, use value, anti-value, ... whatever
... do not well express the basic exchange between society and the
biosphere. It is pretty hard to accept a Marxian overview that ignores the
consequences of the exchange from nature, or is unaware of those
consequences or the activity that invokes them. I say "activity" because
none of us seems to accept any word that adequately represents this
exchange. A Marxian overview that is too small to crawl up on top of the
issue and provide a real overview is kind of hard to defend, n'est-ce pas?
>Our fate is not
> written by fat well manicured men in smoky rooms at all. It's not that
> conscious and it's not that directed.
Yes it is not conscious; and no .. it *is*directed, by the fundamental
forces and laws of nature, rapidly delivering the consequences of the
misunderstanding of the true qualities of the exchange. That is indeed our
fate, and the fate of those well manicured men.
>If the bourgeoisie could get together
> to act in its shared interest, this could be mitigated, but this is sadly
> not immediately foreseeable.
It is not just the bourgeoisie who need to get together. I quote wise Tony:
"It's amazing how little is actually calculated by economics, the
science of calculating all. It's doubtful that marxists have added little to
understanding economic activity, beyond their understanding of the struggle
between classes. .... Unfortunately, this e-list is clear evidence, that
marxists have an over-optimism about the comprehensivenes of their partial,
and seldom
updated, economic theories. Many believe that class struggle and labor
theory of value, is all there is to it."
>And it's hard to see much hope in
> that until the consequent mergers attain their logical culmination - the
> mega-monopolistic technopoly. And we don't have that kind of time, I'm
> afraid.
Well we all agree with this, .... what else ya got for us, Rob?
Any ideas about how we *all* get together to keep governments from nuking
each other as they learn the true reality of the exchange with nature? You
did use a form of the word "mitigate" up there ....
Tom
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