In case you haven't been following CLR (I only read the ones that fit on a page...no attachments), Mark is on a tear. I really like that guy. Facing ones immortality doth make realists of us all. ~~~ Hal << Message: 2 From: "Mark Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [CrashList] More than oil running out Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:32:33 -0000 charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rob, my old lad, my universal standard copout just now is that I'm working on a book. So no, I don't have the Ted Trainer refs any more, but no doubt the ubiquitous, admirable Jay hanson does. Anyway, why are you scared? It's too late already, you're gonna die. Get a rosary. Chill. There is plenty of stuff about ecofootprints, do a search. But it's all a waste of time, man. The basic lesson for Xmas is (a) we've fucked the planet, and (b) so we are fucked, plus (c) the criminalised American democracy has just given the world Bush, so there is even less time to enjoy what's left than I thought. Finally, (d), even while floods wash their homes away and fire licks at their feet, the people on pen-l will still be animatedly discussing the contribution to value of watermills. And Lou Proyect will still be talking about the trahison des clercs apres 1926. (e) I did read a bit of a Flashman book but I'm in remission right now, so maybe later, during those long nights on some soulless chemo ward, I'll finish it.... Happy Christmas. Joyeux Noel. S'prasnikom s'novom godom. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rob Schaap > Sent: 06 December 2000 14:19 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CrashList] More than oil running out > > > Hey Mark! Didn't you post (or put on the Crash web site) a really scary > essay by an Australian academic called Trayner (or Traynor) some time back? > I can't put my hands on it just now, but I remember it proffered some > projections which would go well with the WWF arithmetic Tom's just given us. > Any chance of another peek? > > (And did you ever get the beak into a Flashman?) > > Cheers, > Rob. > > _______________________________________________ > Crashlist resources: http://website.lineone.net/~resource_base > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/crashlist > --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:46:24 -0600 From: Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CrashList] More than oil running out Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Jones wrote: > Anyway, why are you scared? It's too late already, you're gonna die. > Get a rosary. Chill. Let's see if I can cheer you up -- this a way It's always been a waste of time, hasn't it, but when was that ever an excuse not to spend the time. Assume for a second that you are wrong and it isn't too late -- that we even triumph sometime in the near future and somehow solve the oil and warming crises. How will that help the billions who have already died in misery? Why should we have any more concern for our great- great-grandchildren than for our great-great grand- fathers? But we struggle nevertheless do we not? There is enormous cheer to be found in Epicurus' pessimism. Carrol --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:53:48 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: bon moun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [CrashList] Fw: A few interesting statistics Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] These stats don't square with the reality that Gore won the popular vote by over 300,000. They also don't mention that in the USA, no one knows where the most guns are, because they are largely not recorded and registered. Murder rates and every other crime rate do, however, correlate with political affiliation, for one reason. Poverty also correlates with crime. This is a perfect example of why we should (1) mistrust statistics that have not been verified, (2) ask what's not represented in the sample, and (3) determine the motives of the presenter. BTW, I'm no Gore fan. He's very much the capitalist candidate. But the Republicans are fascists, and I dislike fascists immensley. The partial Republican oppostion to the NATO aggression against Yugoslavia was a partisan position, and it's important to note that the Bush boys, one and all, are all for NATO expansion and the liberal application of military force to recalcitrant potential colonies. At 05:13 PM 12/6/00 +0100, you wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:12 PM >Subject: A few interesting statistics >>> http://www.Federalist.com >> >> >> ______--------********O********--------______ >> FOR THE RECORD >> >> Here are a few interesting statistics from our breakdown map of >> counties won by George Bush and Albert Gore >> (http://www.federalist.com/e2000.html) as compiled by law professor >> Joseph Olson. The last item is, perhaps, the most telling. >> >> 2,434 >> 677 >> >> 143 million >> 127 million >> >> Square miles of country won by Bush: 2,427,000 >> 580,000 >> >> 29 >> 19 >> >> And now for the most remarkable finding.... >> >> 0.1 >> Average Murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore: 13.2 >> >> The Federalist's crack staff of researchers found one more interesting >> fact that might help explain these disparate murder rates. Gun >> ownership in the counties won by Mr. Bush is much higher than in the >> counties won by Mr. Gore! >> >> ===================================================== >> >> * Veritas Vos Liberabit * >> >> "If insurrection is an art, its main content is to know how to give the struggle the form appropriate to the political situation." -Vo Nguyen Giap "Rather than seeking comparabilities in statistical terms among what are all too often superficial features of different situations, comparabilities must be sought at the level of determinate mechanisms, at the level of processes that are generally hidden from easy view." -Eleanor Burke Leacock "Every day one has to struggle that this love to a living humanity transform itself into concrete acts, in acts that serve as examples, as motivation." -Ernesto "Che" Guevara "Mask no difficulties." -Amilcar Cabral --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Mark Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [CrashList] More than oil running out Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:49:15 -0000 charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Let's see if I can cheer you up -- this a way Look, for the last time, I AM cheerful but if you keep telling me I'm not, I may change. > > Assume > for a second that you are wrong and it isn't too late This is the kind of thing which makes me fall over laughing. The denialism of so-called 'marxists' who are supposed to understand what's going on still astonishes me. Assume it's not too late to find that the moon is made of green cheese, or that fusion energy has a future, or that Montana doesn't burn like everywhere else and that you can save yourself, or just a part of it, without at the same time saving everything. Go ahead, assume whatever you like if it makes you feel better. I don't give a damn, just do it. Your 'argument' has 2 parts (a) people have cried wolf before but nothing ever happened and (b) anyway something will turn up. But (a) is irrelevant because we have never been in this situation before. If you don't know that now, after participating in these discussions, and watching tv, and watching it rain etc, then I can't help you. (b) 'something will turn up' is technological micawberism and that is just what got us into this mess in the first place. It also suggests political passivity + blind faith in capitalism. Actually, all that can possibly turn up technology-wise is mass extermination. That is after all one sure way to solve the main problem, ie, too many humans at given resource-use levels. If you want to campaign against racism, that's fine by me, too. Do whatever you like, no-one's watching. Mark -- > that we even triumph sometime in the near future and > somehow solve the oil and warming crises. How will > that help the billions who have already died in misery? > > Why should we have any more concern for our great- > great-grandchildren than for our great-great grand- > fathers? But we struggle nevertheless do we not? > > There is enormous cheer to be found in Epicurus' > pessimism. > > Carrol > > > > _______________________________________________ > Crashlist resources: http://website.lineone.net/~resource_base > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/crashlist > --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Crashlist resources: http://website.lineone.net/~resource_base To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/crashlist End of Crashlist Digest_______________________________________________ Crashlist resources: http://website.lineone.net/~resource_base To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/crashlist >> _______________________________________________ Crashlist resources: http://website.lineone.net/~resource_base To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/crashlist
