>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/07/00 06:27PM >>>
In case you haven't been following CLR (I only read the ones that fit on a
page...no attachments), Mark is on a tear. I really like that guy. Facing
ones immortality doth make realists of us all. ~~~ Hal
(((((((((((
CB: Tough job that, facing one' s immortality. How'd you get to be immortal ?
<< Message: 2
From: "Mark Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [CrashList] More than oil running out
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:32:33 -0000
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rob, my old lad,
my universal standard copout just now is that I'm working on a book. So no,
I don't
have the Ted Trainer refs any more, but no doubt the ubiquitous, admirable
Jay
hanson does. Anyway, why are you scared? It's too late already, you're gonna
die.
Get a rosary. Chill.
There is plenty of stuff about ecofootprints, do a search. But it's all a
waste of
time, man.
The basic lesson for Xmas is (a) we've fucked the planet, and (b) so we are
fucked,
plus (c) the criminalised American democracy has just given the world Bush,
so there
is even less time to enjoy what's left than I thought. Finally, (d), even
while
floods wash their homes away and fire licks at their feet, the people on
pen-l will
still be animatedly discussing the contribution to value of watermills. And
Lou
Proyect will still be talking about the trahison des clercs apres 1926.
(e) I did read a bit of a Flashman book but I'm in remission right now, so
maybe
later, during those long nights on some soulless chemo ward, I'll finish
it....
Happy Christmas. Joyeux Noel. S'prasnikom s'novom godom.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rob Schaap
> Sent: 06 December 2000 14:19
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CrashList] More than oil running out
>
>
> Hey Mark! Didn't you post (or put on the Crash web site) a really scary
> essay by an Australian academic called Trayner (or Traynor) some time back?
> I can't put my hands on it just now, but I remember it proffered some
> projections which would go well with the WWF arithmetic Tom's just given
us.
> Any chance of another peek?
>
> (And did you ever get the beak into a Flashman?)
>
> Cheers,
> Rob.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crashlist resources: http://website.lineone.net/~resource_base
> To change your options or unsubscribe go to:
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>
--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:46:24 -0600
From: Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CrashList] More than oil running out
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mark Jones wrote:
> Anyway, why are you scared? It's too late already, you're gonna die.
> Get a rosary. Chill.
Let's see if I can cheer you up -- this a way
It's always been a waste of time, hasn't it, but when
was that ever an excuse not to spend the time. Assume
for a second that you are wrong and it isn't too late --
that we even triumph sometime in the near future and
somehow solve the oil and warming crises. How will
that help the billions who have already died in misery?
Why should we have any more concern for our great-
great-grandchildren than for our great-great grand-
fathers? But we struggle nevertheless do we not?
There is enormous cheer to be found in Epicurus'
pessimism.
Carrol
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:53:48 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: bon moun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [CrashList] Fw: A few interesting statistics
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
These stats don't square with the reality that Gore won the popular vote by
over 300,000.
They also don't mention that in the USA, no one knows where the most guns
are, because they are largely not recorded and registered. Murder rates
and every other crime rate do, however, correlate with political
affiliation, for one reason. Poverty also correlates with crime. This is
a perfect example of why we should (1) mistrust statistics that have not
been verified, (2) ask what's not represented in the sample, and (3)
determine the motives of the presenter.
BTW, I'm no Gore fan. He's very much the capitalist candidate. But the
Republicans are fascists, and I dislike fascists immensley. The partial
Republican oppostion to the NATO aggression against Yugoslavia was a
partisan position, and it's important to note that the Bush boys, one and
all, are all for NATO expansion and the liberal application of military
force to recalcitrant potential colonies.
At 05:13 PM 12/6/00 +0100, you wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:12 PM
>Subject: A few interesting statistics
>>> http://www.Federalist.com
>>
>>
>> ______--------********O********--------______
>> FOR THE RECORD
>>
>> Here are a few interesting statistics from our breakdown map of
>> counties won by George Bush and Albert Gore
>> (http://www.federalist.com/e2000.html) as compiled by law professor
>> Joseph Olson. The last item is, perhaps, the most telling.
>>
>> 2,434
>> 677
>>
>> 143 million
>> 127 million
>>
>> Square miles of country won by Bush: 2,427,000
>> 580,000
>>
>> 29
>> 19
>>
>> And now for the most remarkable finding....
>>
>> 0.1
>> Average Murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore: 13.2
>>
>> The Federalist's crack staff of researchers found one more interesting
>> fact that might help explain these disparate murder rates. Gun
>> ownership in the counties won by Mr. Bush is much higher than in the
>> counties won by Mr. Gore!
>>
>> =====================================================
>>
>> * Veritas Vos Liberabit *
>>
>>
"If insurrection is an art, its main content is to know how to give the
struggle the form appropriate to the political situation."
-Vo Nguyen Giap
"Rather than seeking comparabilities in statistical terms among what are
all too often superficial features of different situations, comparabilities
must be sought at the level of determinate mechanisms, at the level of
processes that are generally hidden from easy view."
-Eleanor Burke Leacock
"Every day one has to struggle that this love to a living humanity
transform itself into concrete acts, in acts that serve as examples, as
motivation."
-Ernesto "Che" Guevara
"Mask no difficulties."
-Amilcar Cabral
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: "Mark Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [CrashList] More than oil running out
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:49:15 -0000
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Let's see if I can cheer you up -- this a way
Look, for the last time, I AM cheerful but if you keep telling me I'm not, I
may
change.
>
> Assume
> for a second that you are wrong and it isn't too late
This is the kind of thing which makes me fall over laughing. The denialism of
so-called 'marxists' who are supposed to understand what's going on still
astonishes
me. Assume it's not too late to find that the moon is made of green cheese,
or that
fusion energy has a future, or that Montana doesn't burn like everywhere
else and
that you can save yourself, or just a part of it, without at the same time
saving
everything. Go ahead, assume whatever you like if it makes you feel better.
I don't
give a damn, just do it.
Your 'argument' has 2 parts (a) people have cried wolf before but nothing
ever
happened and (b) anyway something will turn up.
But (a) is irrelevant because we have never been in this situation before.
If you
don't know that now, after participating in these discussions, and watching
tv, and
watching it rain etc, then I can't help you. (b) 'something will turn up' is
technological micawberism and that is just what got us into this mess in the
first
place. It also suggests political passivity + blind faith in capitalism.
Actually,
all that can possibly turn up technology-wise is mass extermination. That is
after
all one sure way to solve the main problem, ie, too many humans at given
resource-use levels.
If you want to campaign against racism, that's fine by me, too. Do whatever
you
like, no-one's watching.
Mark
--
> that we even triumph sometime in the near future and
> somehow solve the oil and warming crises. How will
> that help the billions who have already died in misery?
>
> Why should we have any more concern for our great-
> great-grandchildren than for our great-great grand-
> fathers? But we struggle nevertheless do we not?
>
> There is enormous cheer to be found in Epicurus'
> pessimism.
>
> Carrol
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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