My unpaid QA tester (also my fiancee) just got her first rune.
>> Are they? Part of the point is that there are diggable and undiggable
>> rock types and that they look the same until closely examined.
>>
>I mean it's obvious that there are several walls of different type. I don't
>think players will have trouble figuring out which ones they have to zap
>their wands at.
It took her *quite a while* to intuitively grasp the different wall types.
Wall types are going to be an easy deduction for a roguelike player, but
someone who is new to the visual aesthetic might well have a very real need
for this sort of differentiation. And isn't that part of what the tutorial
is for?
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:09 AM, <
crawl-ref-discuss-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Tutorial feedback (Raphael Langella)
> 2. Re: Tutorial feedback (Johanna Ploog)
> 3. Re: ranged attackers AI (Raphael Langella)
> 4. Re: ranged attackers AI (Johanna Ploog)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:08:11 +0100
> From: Raphael Langella <raphael.lange...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Crawl-ref-discuss] Tutorial feedback
> To: crawl-ref-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTik_xDA=_b3c8-hwzpgnn_td_o6in_7ptc8cs...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> 2011/1/25 Johanna Ploog <johanna.pl...@googlemail.com>
>
> > > For the command... thing, I'll see if I can make the buttons blink or
> > something.
> >
> > Blink? In what context? *blinks*
> >
>
> I mean to make buttons flash on and off. At the beginning, there would be a
> message (only if the command panel is visible) "You can also use the
> command
> panel for some commands. When that is the case, the button will blink. For
> example, you can read past message by clicking on the blinking button". And
> the view log button has its background change between normal and blue every
> second until you take a step.
>
> > Another idea: gain a single level in each tutorial, and start the next
> one
> > > at the level you finished the last. That gives the player a sense of
> > > progression, and allow us more variety with monsters. And no more
> > problems
> > > with low MP for the latter lessons on spells and gods.
> >
> > Hmm... unusual idea. I sort of like it, though it might also be
> > confusing, or the player might get the impression that spells are more
> > powerful than bow and arrows, simply because they had a higher xlevel
> > at the time. I'll think about it. :)
> >
>
> I don't think so. Monsters will be tougher, so they won't go down faster.
>
> > The various wall types are obvious.
> >
> > Are they? Part of the point is that there are diggable and undiggable
> > rock types and that they look the same until closely examined.
> >
>
> I mean it's obvious that there are several walls of different type. I don't
> think players will have trouble figuring out which ones they have to zap
> their wands at.
>
>
> > >> Doesn't need to be a unique, but yeah rF armour is a definite
> > >> possibility, as are monsters natively immune to fire. An imp?
> > >
> > > OK, maybe keep the unique for a latter session. Imps are a bit
> annoying,
> > but
> > > they may be appropriate for the tutorial.
> >
> > Sorry, that was the only earlyish monster I could think of that's
> > resistant to fire. :)
> >
>
> There isn't any other. I checked mon-data.h, all the other monsters with
> natural rF+ are too tough for the tutorial. Some orcs with rF+ armour
> should
> do it.
>
>
> > An alternative solution is to scratch the whole melting wax idea and
> > hand out a low-damage wand instead, though with recharging around
> > that's still plenty of damage. Or a wand of cold, where at least there
> > are plenty of undead that might resist its effects.
> >
>
> As David, I like the little puzzle. Another alternative would be to allow
> wax melting with flame. The whole wax melting is in dire need of more
> consistency (see #2470 <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2470
> >).
> Allowing all fire effects to melt wax would be good I guess.
>
> Rapha?l
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:01:40 +0100
> From: Johanna Ploog <johanna.pl...@googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Crawl-ref-discuss] Tutorial feedback
> To: crawl-ref-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimMS8FAW1juLqD6fN0vR3sb1G+xw-_MwEE=2...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 25 January 2011 17:08, Raphael Langella <raphael.lange...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 2011/1/25 Johanna Ploog <johanna.pl...@googlemail.com>
> >>
> >> > For the command... thing, I'll see if I can make the buttons blink or
> >> > something.
> >>
> >> Blink? In what context? *blinks*
> >
> > I mean to make buttons flash on and off. At the beginning, there would be
> a
> > message (only if the command panel is visible) "You can also use the
> command
> > panel for some commands. When that is the case, the button will blink.
> For
> > example, you can read past message by clicking on the blinking button".
> And
> > the view log button has its background change between normal and blue
> every
> > second until you take a step.
>
> I'm not sure that's a good idea. For one thing, it involves a *lot* of
> screen redraws and it might be tricky to ensure that these really only
> happen if we are blinking. However, this reminds me: At some point I
> added cursors for highlighting stuff in the tutorial. They're probably
> still buggy because I sort of lost interest in-between, but the idea
> still has merit. Like for your blinking suggestion, we'd have to come
> up with a way to store which tile in which panel is supposed to be
> highlighted, but it's probably less hassle. Probably should be
> temporary until, yeah, the player presses a button or does a
> mouseclick.
>
> >> > Another idea: gain a single level in each tutorial, and start the next
> >> > one at the level you finished the last. That gives the player a sense
> >> > of progression, and allow us more variety with monsters. And no
> >> > more problems with low MP for the latter lessons on spells and gods.
>
> Been pondering this, and by now I think it's not such a good idea,
> after all. At least for the spell lesson (which will come between
> items and gods) I want to start out with xl 1 because that shows the
> experience restriction for learning new spells. Having the next lesson
> on gods start arbitrarily at xl 4 might be confusing. I'm also not
> sure that we should be showing off tougher monsters. Again, if the
> player is not paying attention to the fact that they started out with
> more hit points etc., this might give them a wrong impression on the
> difficulty of the later monsters.
>
> > I mean it's obvious that there are several walls of different type. I
> don't
> > think players will have trouble figuring out which ones they have to zap
> > their wands at.
>
> Yeah, okay. I'm probably overthinking this. :)
>
> > There isn't any other. I checked mon-data.h, all the other monsters with
> > natural rF+ are too tough for the tutorial. Some orcs with rF+ armour
> should
> > do it.
>
> I think I'll stick with gnolls. I really don't see what's to be gained
> with using orcs instead.
>
> > As David, I like the little puzzle. Another alternative would be to allow
> > wax melting with flame. The whole wax melting is in dire need of more
> > consistency (see #2470). Allowing all fire effects to melt wax would be
> good
> > I guess.
>
> Even if melting happens more often, I think it makes sense if flame is
> too weak to do more than insufficiently softening the wall. No
> gameplay changes to make the tutorial puzzles work, please. :)
>
> Johanna
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:28:51 +0100
> From: Raphael Langella <raphael.lange...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Crawl-ref-discuss] ranged attackers AI
> To: crawl-ref-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimUorGteoZ3=OT1e4yb8=m63flyyzdo6wf5u...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> 2011/1/21 David Ploog <dpl...@mi.fu-berlin.de>
>
> > I am a bit late to the party, but let me still say something.
> > First, the new behaviour seems to be okay in actual play (feedback on
> > IRC), which is awesome. Second, there are limits to how far we _want to_
> > (as opposed to _could_) push monster AI.
> >
>
> There is still one thing that I'd like to improve with the monster AI. I
> hate it when intelligent monsters waste turns trying to poison you over and
> over when you are obviously resisting it. This behaviour is perfectly fine
> for swamp drakes, but not so much for nagas and draconians. And the recent
> change only made it slightly worse. Here is how I propose to fix it:
> Whenever foo resists poison (can be an ally), we check all the monsters. If
> it is intelligent, has foo as a target and can see it, we set a boolean
> (target_resists_poison). Then, when evaluating available attacks, we skip
> the poisonous ones (except poison arrow of course) if the boolean is set. I
> wouldn't bother with other resists, as poison is the only one that can be
> completely resisted.
> As a side note, I noticed dragons are only I_ANIMAL. Wouldn't it be more
> appropriate for them to be I_NORMAL, at least for the stronger ones (golden
> and pearl)?
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:08:16 +0100
> From: Johanna Ploog <johanna.pl...@googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Crawl-ref-discuss] ranged attackers AI
> To: crawl-ref-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID:
>
> <aanlktimcalr4+tykw6bcbztgvh1lefaapta3gavjt...@mail.gmail.com<aanlktimcalr4%2btykw6bcbztgvh1lefaapta3gavjtg%...@mail.gmail.com>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 26 January 2011 11:28, Raphael Langella <raphael.lange...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Whenever foo resists poison (can be an ally), we check all the monsters.
> If
> > it is intelligent, has foo as a target and can see it, we set a boolean
> > (target_resists_poison). Then, when evaluating available attacks, we skip
> > the poisonous ones (except poison arrow of course) if the boolean is set.
>
> Sounds good. However, I wouldn't bother with tracking ally
> resistances, at least to begin with.
>
> > I wouldn't bother with other resists, as poison is the only one that can
> be
> > completely resisted.
>
> Well reasoned. I agree.
>
> > As a side note, I noticed dragons are only I_ANIMAL. Wouldn't it be more
> > appropriate for them to be I_NORMAL, at least for the stronger ones
> (golden
> > and pearl)?
>
> I think that at some point we decided that draconians are the dragons'
> intelligent cousins. Allowing for non-unique intelligent dragons would
> blur that distinction. (I say "non-unique" because Xtahua is an
> obvious exception, but then we've got an intelligent spellcaster slug,
> so I guess it's okay if uniques are treated specially.)
>
> Johanna
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
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>
--
Briganne: righto daddyo
It'll will be funny than the other stuff
funner I mean
more funny, to be exact
whatever
okay then
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