On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 3:15 PM, martin <[email protected]> wrote: > Sure, Marco, > > I did NOT question SPARQL as an implementation means, even though there are > very relevant > and intuitive second order queries that SPARQL cannot answer. I question > SPARQL as a human-computer > interface.
And that would be appropriate I would say, but the formulation in the paper is more fundamental and questions SPARQL as query language for the Semantic Web in my reading. > > Cheers, > > Martin > > > > On 24/5/2012 9:42 μμ, Marco Neumann wrote: >> >> Martin, >> >> sure, I can see the provocation and obviously fell for it. But you >> should keep in mind that Linked Data and SPARQL could be or already >> are major drivers for CIDOC CRM vocabulary adoption in cultural >> heritage institutions and generally data sets. >> >> I hope this thread will help to foster a good conversation around LD >> and CIDOC CRM. I plan to address the issue again in July. >> >> Marco >> >> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM, martin<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Marco, >>> >>> I am not sure what W3C recommendations have to do with the cognitive >>> world >>> experts in the cultural-historical domain. >>> >>> But with respect to the statement we made, >>> nobody in our team, including me, could sufficiently fast understand the >>> respective >>> 150 SPARQL queries to verify that they do what was intended. >>> >>> I could however put an archaeologist in our team to write queries as >>> graphs containing >>> question marks after an hour of training. >>> >>> We had implemented very different query paradigms for semantic networks >>> in the past, >>> which in our environment turned out to cause less cognitive overload. >>> >>> That's just an empirical statement. Generalization are, as always, as >>> target of criticism. >>> I would be happy if our provocation would trigger empirical cognitive >>> research. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> On 24/5/2012 12:40 μμ, Dominic Oldman wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Marco, >>>> >>>> As Sebastian says, we have to use SPARQL. However, just because it is >>>> the W3C standard doesn't mean you can't criticise it. However, just like >>>> with SQL we are all looking at ways to help museum practitioners (does >>>> this include our curators undertaking digital research projects) explore >>>> data effectively, transparently and with reproducibility, and making use >>>> of the technology with something additional to the SPARQL Endpoint (this >>>> lack of additional tools perhaps explaining lack of take up). >>>> >>>> The ICOM statement, >>>> >>>> "Alternative Proposal for an ICOM-CIDOC Resolution on URIs for Museum >>>> Objects / Linked Open Data", is more high level statement and the >>>> statement that we are currently being asked to agree. It doesn't mention >>>> SPARQL. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Dominic >>>> >>>> Dominic Oldman >>>> Deputy Head of IS >>>> IS Development Manager >>>> ResearchSpace Principal Investigator >>>> British Museum >>>> +44 (0)20 73238796 >>>> +44 (0)7980 865309 >>>> www.BritishMuseum.org >>>> www.ResearchSpace.org >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> On Behalf Of Marco Neumann >>>> Sent: 24 May 2012 10:04 >>>> To: crm-sig >>>> Subject: [Crm-sig] problem of formulating queries is SPARQL it has >>>> transferred the old relational paradigm onto the graph structure? >>>> >>>> Hi Martin et al >>>> >>>> I have just learned about this submission to Museums and the Web. The >>>> authors make the following statement: >>>> >>>> "Last but not least, another problem of formulating queries is SPARQL >>>> (SPARQL Protocol and RDF Query Language). Most favored by information >>>> technology (IT) experts, it has transferred the old relational >>>> paradigm onto the graph structure of the Semantic Web, creating an >>>> incredibly complex system, even for specialists. In our applications, >>>> no IT expert was able to verify that a SPARQL query of the kind we >>>> present in this paper will yield the results intended by a domain >>>> expert simply by reading it." * >>>> >>>> * >>>> A New Framework for Querying Semantic Networks - Museums and the Web >>>> 2012 >>>> http://www.museumsandtheweb.com/mw2012/papers/a_new_framework_for_queryi >>>> ng_semantic_networks >>>> >>>> I find this to be a misleading statement by the authors since SPARQL >>>> is the recommendation by W3C to query RDF data. Would you not >>>> recommend SPARQL to museum practitioners to query RDF data? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Marco >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Marco Neumann >>>> KONA >>>> >>>> Join us at SemTech Biz in San Francisco June 3-7 2012 and save 15% >>>> with the lotico community discount code 'STMN' >>>> http://www.lotico.com/evt/SemTechSF2012/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | >>> Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | >>> | Email: [email protected] | >>> | >>> Center for Cultural Informatics | >>> Information Systems Laboratory | >>> Institute of Computer Science | >>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | >>> | >>> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | >>> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | >>> | >>> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Crm-sig mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >> >> >> > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | > Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | > | Email: [email protected] | > | > Center for Cultural Informatics | > Information Systems Laboratory | > Institute of Computer Science | > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | > | > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | > | > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- --- Marco Neumann KONA Join us at SemTech Biz in San Francisco June 3-7 2012 and save 15% with the lotico community discount code 'STMN' http://www.lotico.com/evt/SemTechSF2012/
