On 5/8/2014 2:28 μμ, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
I think we should accept that ethnographical collections and others have a need
for expressing relations between persons. To make the CRM simple we should
model a schematic way to express such. A solution could be to say that these
relations are defined by humans and create a relation class somewhere under
conceptual objects.
Good idea. In case of associated laws, norms etc. one could specialize
plans in the wider sense, plans how people should
behave.
Does anybody on this list have an opinion about if we should develop an
extension for social relations?
Do we have any anthropologist among us?
M
C-E
-----Original Message-----
From: Crm-sig [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of martin
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 12:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons
Anthropologically, there seem to be an immense number of variants of
kinship, as George Lakoff describes.
So, the challenge for us is to find the generalizations that would be relevant
for recall in an intergated information system. What would be a reasonable
distinction in a query? When would be the answer set too large?
I read that all Chinese with last name Wang (or another) assume a sort of
kinship, of "we". Where are the limits to "minorities" ? Are there reasonable
delimiters to more immediate forms of kinship?
Could we classify social relations by
* kinship & kinship equivalent (like adoption, marriage),
- immediate ??
- relevant for social interaction
- spiritual/political relevance
* by business & interest groups,
* by acquaintance&neighborhood,
* by employment
* by dependency of power (liege, slavery, military) ????
Which of these could appear as a selection in a query?
Do we have research questions and queries for prosopography and other
social relations?
Cheers,
Martin
On 5/8/2014 9:54 πμ, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
Dear Detlev,
The agrelon demonstrates clearly that there is a lot of possible relations. It
could be interesting to see the set of relations if one tried to model the
traditional peasant family in Russia. Traditionally there is a very large
numbers
of terms for describing the relations in the extended family.
C-E
-----Original Message-----
From: Crm-sig [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Detlev Balzer
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons
Dear Christian-Emil,
by the way, a more modest approach to prosopography (compared to
snapdrgn) has been taken here:
http://d-nb.info/standards/elementset/agrelon.owl
Unfortunately, this hasn't yet made it beyond the proposal stage. It
may, however, serve as an example of what kinds of relationships are
considered important in the library sector.
Best regards,
Detlev
Am 04.08.2014 um 16:32 schrieb Christian-Emil Smith Ore:
Snapdrgn and the associated projects for prosopographical
information
(prosopographies) can be a case study and serve as a source of
information/evidence. It is only a 2-3 years project. However, it can
be a task to see how to map the snapdrgn ontology (which is
expressed in rdf(s) I
believe) to CRM. If we cannot do that, CRM needs adjustment or
amendments. I will try to make the mapping and study the matter further.
C-E
-----Original Message-----
From: Crm-sig [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
martin
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 3:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons
Dear Christian-Emil,
I could quite well imagine having a sort of more general Group
describing a social bond that would not involve members potentially
"acting as one" or one speaking for them.
In that case, that Group would no more be "one Actor".
Would you regard http://snapdrgn.net/ as a good practical scope? Do
you have other sources to map from?
If we have a practical scope, we can model things.
Do you propose an amendment to the CRM or a "social" extension?
Best,
Martin
On 4/8/2014 2:38 μμ, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
Dear all,
This is not a part of the discussion in April about groups and
aggregations. It is groups as a way to model relations between
persons
(actors). I gave a presentation about CRM and prosopography at the
DH2014 workshop "Ontologies for prosopography" (see
http://edd.uio.no/artiklar/DH2014/C-E_Ore_prosopography.pdf ).
The current CRM way to model relations between persons is to use
the
E74
Group. A relation is modeled as an instance of E74 Group and the
type of relation is expressed via P2 has Type. In a non-symmetric
relation each person is linked via 'P107 is current or former
member of ' specified by 'P107.1 kind of member'. This is all
according to the scope
note in CRM.
One may note that an instance of E74 Group used in this way
represents an
instance, an n-tuple, of a relation (seen as a set of n-tuples as
in mathematics or in relational databases). The relation is
identified by the type of the E74 group.
I was a little skeptical when this way of modeling relations where
introduced
in CRM. My first thought was to define explicit, typed properties.
After studying how for example the SNAP (Standards for Networking
Ancient Prosopographies, http://snapdrgn.net/) tries to cope with
their at least 65 identified relations between persons by
introducing a relation class in RDFS, I realized that the CRM solution is
very good.
Since this is not meant to be a statement about me and CRM, I will
raise two
issues which I think need some discussion.
1) E74 Group scope note "This class comprises any gatherings or
organizations of two or more people that act collectively or in a
similar way due to any form of unifying relationship.[...]" Will
all related persons fulfill the requirement " act collectively or
in a similar way due to any form of unifying relationship", that
is, is
E74 Group too narrow to be used to model all kind of relations
between
persons like the ones we find in prosopography?
2) The modeling of relations by 'P107 is current or former member of '
specified by 'P107.1 kind of member': If this is to be implemented
in RDF(S), should we in the CRM definition recommend or at list
hint to a good solution to implement the .1 E55 Type properties?
Regards,
Christian-Emil
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--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 |
Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
| Email: [email protected] |
|
Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
|
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
--------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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[email protected]
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--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 |
Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
| Email: [email protected] |
|
Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
|
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
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