Hi Florian, Here is an off line discussion that we should have put on the list.
Cheers, D orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore < [email protected]> wrote: > Do so, and send my regards. Please incorproate the following example: > > > To create excerpts is common activity in lexicography and history. An > excerpt is indeed a fragement of a text. The corresponding expression is a > fragment expression. See for example a paperslip for the word 'shovelfork' > (used to prepare la (small) field instead of ploughing. The text is a > fragment of a longer text dealing with somebody childhood memories > > > http://www.edd.uio.no/setelarkiv/setel1963769.jpg > > > The entire paper slip represents a self-contained expression where a > expression fragment is incorporated (in the corresponding work) > > > Best > > Christian-Emil > ------------------------------ > *From:* Dominic Oldman <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 10 March 2017 13:32 > > *To:* Christian-Emil Smith Ore > *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 > > Hi Christian, > > I note that this didnt go on the list - Can I post this to the list as I > think it is important generally. > > D > > orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 > > On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Dominic Oldman <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Although I think then the scope note could be much clearer on E23 because >> it tends to suggest fragments isolated from the whole whereas in this case >> the section still resides within a whole. Although the scope note does >> state "excerpts" I still think this could be stated far more clearly with >> less ambiguity - if it does mean that these excerpts can be identified >> sections of the information object within a whole text. >> >> Can we put this on the agenda for the next meeting? >> >> D >> >> >> orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 >> >> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> It is not necessarily so that the text printed on a page is a >>> self-contained expression, it is in general a F23 Expression Fragment >>> >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Christian-Emil >>> >>> >>> F22 Self-Contained Expression >>> >>> This class comprises the immaterial realisations of individual works at >>> a particular time that are regarded as a complete whole. The quality of >>> wholeness reflects the intention of its creator that this expression should >>> convey the concept of the work. Such a whole can in turn be part of a >>> larger whole. >>> >>> >>> Inherent to the notion of work is the completion of recognisable >>> outcomes of the work. These outcomes, i.e. the Self-Contained Expressions, >>> are regarded as the symbolic equivalents of Individual Works, which form >>> the atoms of a complex work. A Self-Contained Expression may contain >>> expressions or parts of expressions from other work, such as citations or >>> items collected in anthologies. Even though they are incorporated in the >>> Self-Contained Expression, they are not regarded as becoming members of the >>> expressed container work by their inclusion in the expression, but are >>> rather regarded as foreign or referred to elements. >>> >>> >>> F22 Self-Contained Expression can be distinguished from F23 Expression >>> Fragment in that an F23 Expression Fragment was not intended by its creator >>> to make sense by itself. Normally creators would characterise an outcome of >>> a work as finished. In other cases, one could recognise an outcome of a >>> work as complete from the elaboration or logical coherence of its content, >>> or if there is any historical knowledge about the creator deliberately or >>> accidentally never finishing (completing) that particular expression. In >>> all those cases, one would regard an expression as self-contained. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Dominic Oldman <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* 09 March 2017 20:50 >>> *To:* Christian-Emil Smith Ore >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 >>> >>> >>> So in this case the self contained expression (information object) >>> identified as page 1 can then be represented by a part of a PDF image which >>> itself identifies parts (a physical page?) which are identified accordingly. >>> >>> I'm still not sure whether this is what Florian means though - so await >>> his reply. >>> >>> D >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> orcid.org/0000-0002-5539-3126 >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> There are many ways to number or put identifiers to parts of written or >>>> printed material:folio, sheet (versio/recto), page. >>>> If the physical original is known, perhaps a starting point would be to >>>> model the physical parts and their relationships. >>>> >>>> The pdfs in question seems to be facsimiles of these physical parts. (a >>>> single page, double pages etc). A possible way to model them is to see the >>>> pdfs as carriers of visual items reperesenting the physical objects of the >>>> specific item (P5). >>>> >>>> The first example in the compenote of P138 represents (has >>>> representation): >>>> the digital file found at http://www.emunch.no/N/full/No >>>> -MM_N0001-01.jpg (E36) represents page 1 of Edward Munch's manuscript >>>> MM N 1, Munch-museet (E73) mode of representation Digitisation(E55) >>>> >>>> Best >>>> Christian-Emil >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: Crm-sig <[email protected]> on behalf of Dominic >>>> Oldman <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: 09 March 2017 17:59 >>>> To: Florian Kräutli; [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 >>>> >>>> Hi Florian, >>>> >>>> Just trying to understand. >>>> >>>> You have an expression that is organised with page numbers. This is >>>> reproduced in the PDF. The expression page numbers are the same (the >>>> information object) but page 1 is spread over two carrier pages. i.e. page >>>> 1 is still page 1 as an information object but on the application adobe >>>> spreads it over two application carrier pages. Is that right? or is it >>>> something else. >>>> >>>> If the expression is the same (the same information object) then isn't >>>> page 1, page 1 >>>> >>>> Can you clarify. >>>> >>>> D >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: Crm-sig [[email protected]] on behalf of Florian >>>> Kräutli [[email protected]] >>>> Sent: 09 March 2017 10:38 >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 >>>> >>>> Dear Martin, >>>> >>>> many thanks for your input! >>>> >>>> Our question at the moment is simply, does a page in the PDF represent >>>> one or two pages of the book? >>>> >>>> Later on, we might have more specific questions that will require us to >>>> define the relationships between these two page identifiers (in the >>>> physical book and in the PDF) more explicitly. We would then also need to >>>> manually assess each PDF as, for instance, we can not assume that page n in >>>> a book corresponds to page n/2 in a double-spread PDF. A PDF might contain >>>> some additional pages with information about the digitisation process. >>>> >>>> For now we however only need a binary answer: double-spread yes or no. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Florian >>>> >>>> >>>> > On 8 Mar 2017, at 11:00, [email protected] wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Send Crm-sig mailing list submissions to >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > >>>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > >>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > >>>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> > than "Re: Contents of Crm-sig digest..." >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Today's Topics: >>>> > >>>> > 1. Re: Pages reproduced as spreads (martin) >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> ---------- >>>> > >>>> > Message: 1 >>>> > Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 18:24:17 +0200 >>>> > From: martin <[email protected]> >>>> > To: [email protected] >>>> > Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Pages reproduced as spreads >>>> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >>>> > >>>> > Dear Florian, >>>> > >>>> > There is no model without a question. Pages of books constitute a >>>> > partitioning of an >>>> > information object. Each page number can be seen as an identifier. >>>> > Paragraphs belong to an alternative partitioning system. The >>>> > reproduction has its own particioning, the scanned double pages. >>>> > Each scanned image represents, actually also incorporates, the text of >>>> > two pages of the reproduced. >>>> > Between alternative partitionings, one can define includes/overlaps >>>> > relations. >>>> > >>>> > If this is elegant, depends on what queries or functions you'd like to >>>> > support. >>>> > >>>> > Best, >>>> > >>>> > martin >>>> > >>>> > On 7/3/2017 1:36 ??, Florian Kr?utli wrote: >>>> >> Dear all, >>>> >> >>>> >> I have a collection of Books (F5) that have been reproduced (F33) as >>>> PDFs (E84). >>>> >> In some cases, books have been digitised as spreads i.e. one page in >>>> the PDF represents two pages in the book. >>>> >> >>>> >> Is there an elegant way to model this? >>>> >> >>>> >> Best, >>>> >> >>>> >> Florian >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> >> [email protected] >>>> >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | >>>> > Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | >>>> > | Email: [email protected] | >>>> > | >>>> > Center for Cultural Informatics | >>>> > Information Systems Laboratory | >>>> > Institute of Computer Science | >>>> > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | >>>> > | >>>> > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | >>>> > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | >>>> > | >>>> > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------ >>>> > >>>> > Subject: Digest Footer >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Crm-sig mailing list >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------ >>>> > >>>> > End of Crm-sig Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8 >>>> > *************************************** >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>> >>> >> >
