Dear Francesca, Achille,
I'd like to add: As far as I have read recently, there exist very few
occasions in the world of independent development of a writing system.
For the things we study currently, to find another such center is very
unlikely (nevertheless possible), and reading would not be possible
immediately. All other writing systems are either adaptations and
modifications of systems from cultures in contact, or reinventions under
the impression of writing systems that have come to their knowledge.
This reduces actually the variants of principles we expect in practice,
beyond what is theoretically possible. Isn't it?
By the way, interesting is which kinds of inferences would allow for
determining the reading direction of the Phaistos Disc?
All the best,
Martin
On 10/1/2021 10:22 PM, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig wrote:
Dear Achille, we widely agree, but, I simply meant more general, more
fundamental principles.
On 10/1/2021 6:47 PM, Achille Felicetti wrote:
Dear Martin,
Please find our comments inline.
Very generally, in order to observe a sign as a sign, we need a
context fitting to some hypotheses what people would put signs on,
characteristics suggesting a feature as human made, but most
importantly a finite selection of potential patterns. The latter
condition is absolutely necessary. The result will be a ranked list
of best fitting patterns.
We agree that some characteristics of some signs (e.g. their shape,
the physical properties of how they are traced, etc.) can contribute
to the process of interpreting them as intentionally produced human
products.
In principle, in fact, it is not the specific characteristics of the
signs but their properties of occurrence on a surface that
discriminate their interpretation as part of a (writing) system or
not: for example, the recognition of Linear B or the interpretation
of the signs of the Phaistos disc as “scripture” depend on the
reciprocal relationships that the elements have among themselves,
which therefore lead to the hypothesis of the existence of a system.
It is a matter of fact that, within a given system, /"tout
se tient"/ as Saussure and Chomsky underline.
Yes, of course, this is exactly what I meant below: "The arrangement
of characters into texts are also standardized by a writing system".
Well, yes, I meant the above very generally. You may find mason marks
somewhere on a block of stone, a single sign possibly, at no
particular position, but you find on blocks of the same context, or a
comparable context, similar isolated, deliberately applied scratches,
people have learnt to recognize as being functional.
--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email: [email protected]
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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