Cryptography-Digest Digest #130, Volume #14 Thu, 12 Apr 01 20:13:01 EDT
Contents:
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (David Wagner)
Re: Crypto Books ("Brice Canvel")
MIRACL V4.5 ("Michael Scott")
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) ("M.S. Bob")
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (Frank Gerlach)
Re: Crypto Books (David M. Jones)
Re: Crypto Books (Frank Gerlach)
Re: Snake Oil (Frank Gerlach)
Snake Oil (Frank Gerlach)
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (newbie)
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (Steve Portly)
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (Nicholas Hopper)
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Swedes ? ("Jonas Jakobsson")
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (Nicholas Hopper)
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (David Wagner)
Re: To the script kiddie ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (David A Molnar)
Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted) (David A Molnar)
Re: Swedes ? (David A Molnar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Wagner)
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: 12 Apr 2001 21:12:18 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Wagner)
Nicholas Hopper wrote:
>- Berkeley (David Wagner, Michael Luby, ?)
Also, Doug Tygar works on security, crypto, protocols, e-commerce, etc.,
and Luca Trevisan works on complexity theory, theory of crypto, and so on.
------------------------------
From: "Brice Canvel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Crypto Books
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:18:52 +0100
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My maths background is as follows:
I have a degree in Mathematics and Computing with a lot of Numerical
Analysis in it and a Masters in Numerical Analsys and computing.
So i certainly lack in the more abstract side of mathematics
(abstract algebra with groups, fields, ...). I think my number theory
is pretty fine.
What i intend to do for a start is to look at DES and AES to
understand the mathematics behind those algorithms and why they work.
I found it simple enough to implement them though. It's more the
theory that i need to be able to analyse existing algorithms and
ultimately have a go at doing some myself.
I have already had a look at the handbook of applied cryptography and
it is very helpful to implement most algorithms in C or assembler but
it doesn't go enough into the math.
I hope this helps people giving me some advice on what/where to find
books, papers that would help me in achieving the above.
Thank you for your help.
Brice.
"M.S. Bob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Brice Canvel wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am looking for a maths book that covers the necessary material
> > needed to understand the workings of crypto algorithms like DES,
> > AES, RSA, ... and that would allow me to create my own in my
> > spare time.
>
> Not knowing your mathematical savvyness makes it hard to say what
> is appropriate.
>
> With a undergraduate math background books like Cryptography:
> Theory and Practice (Stinson) or A Course in Number Theory and
> Cryptography
> (Koblitz), or An Introduction to Cryptography, by R. A. Mollin are
> perhaps some of the more commonly recommended introductions of the
> math rich intros to cryptography.
>
> Applied Cryptography by Bruce Schneier is a very common book which
> is more oriented to practical use of existing algorithms and
> protocols. Handbook of Applied Cryptography
> <http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/hac/> is another excellent
> reference, which is available online in PDF.
>
> If you expect to be able to produce algorithms as resistant to
> cryptanalysis as DES, AES, and RSA then you'll need far more then
> one or two books.
>
> This is explained in the sci.crypt FAQ (part 3 I think), PGP's
> documentation (re: bass-o-matic), Applied Cryptography, and various
> essays written by Bruce Schneier available from
> <http://www.counterpane.com/labs.html>, Why Cryptography Is Harder
> Than It Looks <http://www.counterpane.com/whycrypto.html>.
>
> Now, if you meant which math topics, and what are some of the
> better books to understand them, I am sorry I haven't answer that
> question very well. Modern Algebra, Statistics, Number Theory,
> Information Theory, Complexity, Finite Fields, Combinatorics, and
> Algorithm Analysis.
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------------------------------
From: "Michael Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: MIRACL V4.5
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:51:26 -0500
A new version of MIRACL is available from http://indigo.ie/~mscott
The new version 4.5 supports a new mechanism for squeezing maximum
performance from targeted microprocessors. As an illustration of this
mechanism full support for optimal ARM code is now included.
On a 80MHz ARM7TDMI a point multiplication on the NIST standard P-192 GF(p)
Elliptic curve takes 54ms.
Mike Scott
------------------------------
From: "M.S. Bob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:50:56 +0100
Look, I asked a honest question, without trying to be condescending. I
am sorry if I sounded as such. You still haven't named any other
universities or places of learning from such parts of the world.
I will gladly confess I am not familiar with the education systems of
Russia, China, India, etc. at all. So I am asking you to tell me about
which universities have good research programmes in cryptography in such
parts of the world.
newbie wrote:
>
> Ethnocentrism and arrogance is not the way to improve knowledge.
> You do not know what the Chinese or Russian had invented.
> What is published is NOT the real knowledge.
> FBI spend more than a year to decipher letters encrypted by single
> amateurs.
>
> Good day
>
>
> "M.S. Bob" wrote:
> >
> > newbie wrote:
> > >
> > > No good universities in other parts of the world?
> > > Russia, China, India, Pakistan, etc...?
------------------------------
From: Frank Gerlach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:46:03 +0200
IIRC Bruce Schneier mentions quite a number of (mainland ?) chinese
crypto research institutions, doing quite original work.
Also, I remember to have read that chinese services broke a significant
number of japanese ciphers before WW2. So maybe you should look in your
"vicinity"...
Unfortunately, the best schools are IMHO at the NSAGCHQ spooks. Check
the CESG website on what they called "Non-secret encryption" at that
time..
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Crypto Books
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Jones)
Date: 12 Apr 2001 18:28:15 -0400
On the general subject of crypto books, what do folks think of the
following?
Arto Salomaa. Public-Key Cryptography, second edition. Springer,
1996. 3-540-61356-0.
I have a chance to pick it up cheap. Is it worth it?
David M. Jones "But you I beg, make not your anger manifest
[EMAIL PROTECTED] For all that lives need help from all the rest."
------------------------------
From: Frank Gerlach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Crypto Books
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:49:10 +0200
start with Applied Cryptography by Bruce Schneier.
Brice Canvel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a maths book that covers the necessary material needed to
> understand the workings of crypto algorithms like DES, AES, RSA, ... and
> that would allow me to create my own in my spare time.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brice.
------------------------------
From: Frank Gerlach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Snake Oil
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:04:03 +0200
Although they managed to get some distance in between them and
Cheltenham, all those fancy graphics containing just a lot of redundancy
tells a lot...
I leave it as an exercise to find out what is in Cheltenham :-)
------------------------------
From: Frank Gerlach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Snake Oil
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:54:55 +0200
Is the proper term.
------------------------------
From: newbie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:37:34 -0300
Your first postulate is : "the university is the only place when you can
learn cryptography "
Your second is " you have to be strong mathematician to learn
cryptography "
Your third postulate is " only USA and Europe are the best place to
learn cryptography"
This is simply wrong.
Did you read a french translation of "Stop secret" Tchayatin Olga?
Unpublished book. It is hard to find.
I have a copy but not in Canada. In my sister,s house in Paris.
"M.S. Bob" wrote:
>
> Look, I asked a honest question, without trying to be condescending. I
> am sorry if I sounded as such. You still haven't named any other
> universities or places of learning from such parts of the world.
>
> I will gladly confess I am not familiar with the education systems of
> Russia, China, India, etc. at all. So I am asking you to tell me about
> which universities have good research programmes in cryptography in such
> parts of the world.
>
> newbie wrote:
> >
> > Ethnocentrism and arrogance is not the way to improve knowledge.
> > You do not know what the Chinese or Russian had invented.
> > What is published is NOT the real knowledge.
> > FBI spend more than a year to decipher letters encrypted by single
> > amateurs.
> >
> > Good day
> >
> >
> > "M.S. Bob" wrote:
> > >
> > > newbie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No good universities in other parts of the world?
> > > > Russia, China, India, Pakistan, etc...?
------------------------------
From: Steve Portly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:08:23 -0400
Boston University has a pretty good CS department, at least they did back in
the 80s. Some of the more recent stuff looks interesting too. They have a
lot of foreign exchange students and its not too far from Canada.
http://people.bu.edu/alexserg/crypto.html
"M.S. Bob" wrote:
> Look, I asked a honest question, without trying to be condescending. I
> am sorry if I sounded as such. You still haven't named any other
> universities or places of learning from such parts of the world.
>
> I will gladly confess I am not familiar with the education systems of
> Russia, China, India, etc. at all. So I am asking you to tell me about
> which universities have good research programmes in cryptography in such
> parts of the world.
>
> newbie wrote:
> >
> > Ethnocentrism and arrogance is not the way to improve knowledge.
> > You do not know what the Chinese or Russian had invented.
> > What is published is NOT the real knowledge.
> > FBI spend more than a year to decipher letters encrypted by single
> > amateurs.
> >
> > Good day
> >
> >
> > "M.S. Bob" wrote:
> > >
> > > newbie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No good universities in other parts of the world?
> > > > Russia, China, India, Pakistan, etc...?
------------------------------
From: Nicholas Hopper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:12:10 -0400
On 12 Apr 2001, David A Molnar wrote:
> Just one or two minor additions. This is the sort of thing that probably
> should be kept up to date somewhere...but who has time? (not me)
>
> > - Berkeley (David Wagner, Michael Luby, ?)
> Doug Tygar
Doh! He still has students at CMU (well, who will be granted degress from
CMU). But I guess that the list of researchers I cite reveals what part of
the literature I'm most familiar with...
> > - Harvard (Michael Rabin, ?)
> Salil Vadhan, Leslie Valiant (not crypto per se, but complexity
> theory, combinatorics, and learning theory)
Thanks. I figured you could fill us in on this question mark.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Nicholas J. Hopper
Ph.D. Student in Computer Science
Carnegie Mellon University
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:50:02 GMT
Frank Gerlach wrote:
> Unfortunately, the best schools are IMHO at the NSAGCHQ spooks. Check
> the CESG website on what they called "Non-secret encryption" at that
> time..
The invention of nonsecret encryption has only a *very* small
connection with education. The NCS serves the requirements of
career cryptologists working for the US government. If you
want to learn cryptology then learn mathematical prerequisites
(along with introductions to signals and systems, etc.) in
college, then apply for a job as a career cryptologist with
the government. More on the NSA Web site.
------------------------------
From: "Jonas Jakobsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Swedes ?
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:25:24 +0200
What is good choices for Swedes, when wanting to study cryptography and
security ?
Or is it worthwhile to take some courses abroad ?
What do you think ?
thanks !
/Jonas
"kctang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Dear all,
>
> "Good" school in Cryptography wanted.
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> kctang (for TOM)
>
>
> PS
> What is good? That depends.
> Might be the reputation is good.
> Might be the scholarship is good.
> Might be the tuition fees are good.
> Might be the quality is good.
> Might be the schoolmates are good.
> Might be the supervisor is good.
> Might be the school let you copying something and allow you
> to graduate. This is good!
>
>
> This was everything that TOM wanted to know but was afraid to
> ask. Stop pretending ok?!
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Nicholas Hopper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:34:22 -0400
On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, newbie wrote:
> Your first postulate is : "the university is the only place when you can
> learn cryptography "
Please review the original post in this thread:
"Dear all,
"Good" school in Cryptography wanted.
Any recommendations?
Thanks,
kctang"
The poster asked for a "school" in cryptography. I'm not qualified to
comment on the quality of military or government instruction in these
areas, because I haven't attended such a program, and the curricula are
not public knowledge. Thus I gave a list of universities. If you know of
other "schools" in cryptography, you are free to recommend them.
> Your second is " you have to be strong mathematician to learn
> cryptography "
This is absolutely true.
> Your third postulate is " only USA and Europe are the best place to
> learn cryptography"
The institutions of North America especially are the ones with which I am
the most familiar. While I'm certain that there are fine cryptographic
researchers at institutions in other parts of the world, none of them came
immediately to mind, which means nothing. (I can think of several Japanese
researchers, but I believe they are all employed in industrial positions).
Since this is a public forum, anyone who knows about programs in those
parts of the world, or who knows of other North American or European
programs that I didn't list, is free to post about them.
But one other university that came to mind about two minutes after my
first post was the Weizmann Institute in Israel, which counts among its
faculty Adi Shamir, Oded Goldreich, Moni Naor, Shafi Goldwasser
(sometimes?) and Uriel Feige.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Nicholas J. Hopper
Ph.D. Student in Computer Science
Carnegie Mellon University
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Wagner)
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: 12 Apr 2001 23:44:09 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Wagner)
Frank Gerlach wrote:
>Unfortunately, the best schools are IMHO at the NSAGCHQ spooks.
How so? What criteria are you using, and what evidence do you have?
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.security.pgp
Subject: Re: To the script kiddie
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:46:05 -0500
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Derek Bell wrote in message <9b4f7n$2vf7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>In sci.crypt Grant Maw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: We get the message. Now bugger off and stop killing the forum for
>everybody : else with your own personal opinions!
>
> Seconded!!
All in favor say "Aye"... ("aye...aye..aye..aye...")
Oppose by like sign... ("................................")
...and the motion carries.
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------------------------------
From: David A Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: 12 Apr 2001 23:40:46 GMT
Nicholas Hopper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2001, David A Molnar wrote:
>> > - Berkeley (David Wagner, Michael Luby, ?)
>> Doug Tygar
> Doh! He still has students at CMU (well, who will be granted degress from
> CMU). But I guess that the list of researchers I cite reveals what part of
> the literature I'm most familiar with...
Yeah. I would have made a similar list if it weren't for the fact that Tygar
visited here recently. Also Tygar was one of Rabin's PhD students back in
the 80s...
>> > - Harvard (Michael Rabin, ?)
>> Salil Vadhan, Leslie Valiant (not crypto per se, but complexity
>> theory, combinatorics, and learning theory)
> Thanks. I figured you could fill us in on this question mark.
Glad to know I'm anticipated. :-)
I should also mention that the Harvard math department is full of number
theorists, although I don't know if any of them do any *public* crypto
work...in fact, I've observed precious little faculty interaction between
the two departments. Not that I as a lowly undergrad would have the
opportunity to notice, of course.
For example, Elkies is supposed to offer a course on "The Arithmetic of
Elliptic Curves" next year and has offered analytic number theory in the
past. Of course, you have to be pretty sharp to keep your head above water
in these courses...
-David
------------------------------
From: David A Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: _"Good" school in Cryptography ("was" I got accepted)
Date: 12 Apr 2001 23:42:32 GMT
David Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nicholas Hopper wrote:
>>- Berkeley (David Wagner, Michael Luby, ?)
> Also, Doug Tygar works on security, crypto, protocols, e-commerce, etc.,
> and Luca Trevisan works on complexity theory, theory of crypto, and so on.
Thanks for the correction - I'd forgotten that Trevisan was no longer at
Columbia. Though I should remember since a friend of mine is or was working
for him...Speaking of Columbia, was it on the list? Jon Katz, Avi Rubin, and
Moti Yung are there at least.
-David
------------------------------
From: David A Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Swedes ?
Date: 12 Apr 2001 23:48:27 GMT
Jonas Jakobsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is good choices for Swedes, when wanting to study cryptography and
> security ?
You could go study with Johan Hastad, if you have a theoretical bent.
http://www.nada.kth.se/~johanh/
> Or is it worthwhile to take some courses abroad ?
Helsinki University of Technology seems to have a lot of courses in security
and cryptography. I'm not familiar with their offerings; I just skimmed the
web pages once a long time ago.
-David
------------------------------
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