On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:46:53 +0100 Ulf Möller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > [I haven't seen the original documents, so consider this only a rumor at this
> >point.  Anyone have more info?  -- John]
> (I don't know if that is a permanent URL. If not, search for document number
> 27591, nr. 1 at http://www.parlement.nl/doc/parlando/hfdframe/par001.htm .)
> It's in Dutch, obviously.

Thanks! Our gevernment is more `on-line' than I thought :-)

The document (an official reply of the minister of Defence De Grave to the
Dutch Parliament) confirms the Subject line of this thread:

        "Op grond hiervan concludeert de regering dat het grootschalig
        afluisteren van moderne telecommunicatiesystemen niet slechts is
        voorbehouden aan de met «Echelon» in verband gebrachte landen maar een
        activiteit is van opsporings-, veiligheids,- en inlichtingen-diensten
        van vele overheden van landen met uiteenlopende politieke kleur."

        "On the basis of this information the government concludes that large
        scale interception of modern telecommunication systems is not limited
        to the countries apparently involved in `Echelon', but is an activity
        of investigation-, security- and intelligence agencies of many
        governments of countries of varying political complexion."

Funnily, an article in de Volkskrant ("Echelon lijkt verdacht veel op Gladio",
January 23, 2001) cited de Grave _denying_ that the Dutch
intelligence agencies would be involved in economical espionage. 

        "Ook Nederland laat zich niet onbetuigd, al helpen de Binnenlandse
        Veiligheidsdienst (BVD) en de Militaire Inlichtingendienst (MID) geen
        bedrijven aan informatie - althans volgens minister De Grave."


        "The Netherlands are also involved [in espionage], however the BVD and
        MID do not give information to companies - at least according to
        minister De Grave."

This is very much _not_ true. According to research by C. Wiebes (NISA,
University of Amsterdam) presented on a conference a year ago, the Dutch
intelligence agencies did perform economic espionage, looking for specific
information detailed to them, and reported these results to the ministry of
Interior Affairs.


Jaap-Henk Hoepman             | Come sail your ships around me
Dept. of Computer Science     | And burn your bridges down
University of Twente          |       Nick Cave - "Ship Song"
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