Hey Bob-Rob, thanks a lot for the quick and long answer. Developers communicating with the community have a good chance to be sucessful. I like it. I want to give my feedback, if you like. First in general, towards the architecture, lets discuss it. Then to the client, I tested it already but get no connection to any members.
Waste is an application, which was always regarded as a network p2p programm, I regarded it always as a budylist, as Waste has 2 modi, one with friends giving the friend (and freinds of friends) to friends, and anther modus, in which you do not allow this, its is a private buddylist. In the first case it is unsecure as a friend of a friend can be evil and you get then the IP adress, though packets are routed somewhere. I guess Jason (?) Frankel did only made this function to get a release wrking for a small network. In the other case as a budylist, you have no way of handling dynamic IP adresses. As there is no server (or ring of servers like in emule), you can bootstap from. So bootstrapping the waste buddylist was the lack. Here we have 2 solutions, a ring of servers to bootstrap (key = ip = updated IP searching for buddies) or to implement a DHT finding the IP adress. Here comes Cspace into the frame. Cspace is the worldwide buddylist to bootstrap the GUID oder USer-Keys from a DHT, if the serverside is de-implemented for the CSapce-ID 9781 and the RSA-Key search on the DHT is the decentral method onyl in Cspace. Cspace has no filesharing or buddy-shared-folder browsing integrated yet. Alliance is the same system as retroshare, yes, still without encryption. (?) It`s in java and has a bad gui. I do not like it much. The idea is good, but ha sa swell 2 lacks: 1. To send the buddyname to budies is a problem, if a buddy of mine calls himself m-fukker, i do not want, that a working-collegue-buddy sees this name. 2. As in the gaim-gnutella-filesharing plugin from downhillbattle discussion at zeropaid and i think it was explaind in the downhillbattle forum, but it is removed and maybe only in the google cache.. the problem is here.. if you swarm.. then you have as well the second generation filesahring with all IP adresses downloading the certain file.. so the Evil node or Ri-AA just has to use the tool as a member as still now limewire or emule too, to get the filesharer´s IP adress. So to be anonymous, you need a proxynetwork providing non.direct downloads like ants2p.sf.net or i2phex on i2p.net or mute or rshare.de, but the last two ones have no end to end encryption, so each node can see the data. So the questions for a new tool are: - why not implementing to proxy (selfproxy p2p network) the uploading IP adress - If you want to provide shared of buddies and buddies of buddies: A) how deep is the structure, buddies of budiees (2x) or a third level with buddies of buddies of buddies (3x) ? and b) if you then allow swarming or searching for a hash, then you collect all buddies for this has, which is then the same as a peer for this hash in emule, just all cows in one herd. So.. the more deeper the structure (the more buddies you allow) the more you make out of (private) buddies a (public) peer. and third: you have to solve the bootstrapping and dynamic IP recovering problem. ATM you provide like in alliance the IP adress in the key. Itß sbuddy, as you sent the LAN-IP behind a routzer with the ky and dyn-dns is not supported and even if, the danymic ip is then not solved by the architecture. So.. how big is the chance, users want a file from a buddy-target group only ? this is an architecture with less sources and not with actual releases as not all my friends are releasers ( i am not either) and have partials from the new movie. So.. to send buddies a new mp2, from which I thik they should know it, I sent the fie per mail, per buddylist or I send the magnet-hash or ed2k hash via mail or messenger for shareaza.com Retroshare is not a reals buddylist, so here as well the question why not setting up on gaim or any other buddylist? I think we need to look on the level of partials and then make a concept for sharing for public peers and private buddies. We had this for edonkey and krive.com (as well private ed2k hash sharing in groups from metamachine edonkey). The suggestion was here, and as well at this mailinglist a concept, that all transferred chunks in upload and download can get in two networks: the buddynetwork and the peersnetwork. If you then want a file transfer, which excludes nodes swamring while it is transfered, you need to use the direct eprson to person Transfer from e.g. Cspace buddylist. (no hash needed) But if you want to swarm it from buddies and / or Peers, then wile the trsanfer is made, all public peers can swarm the private buddies, while up an down. Then you get partial sspread and they came from a reelaser to buddies and to get the paartials to peers, we have this golden rule described. Partials from buddie swarms are available for peer swarms. Back to retroshare.. it would be goog, to have it liek a real buddylist, but still another? it would be good, to have it boostrapping dynamic IP adresses without using dyndns, as normal suers have ther no account, this is why the DHT of Csapce is so cool. Yes, I would like to see Retroshare to be able to connect to cspace. Make Retroshare a scpace c++ clone. Then we can browse the shared folderlist o fbuddies (but not more, no buddies of buddies). Yes, I would lile to see retroshare added with an DHT like Cspace.. so we have a decentral bootstrapping. Alliance as Retroshare do not find the peers, if both have a new IP adress after a long offline phase. And ading a dyn ip to a Client GUI key i snonsense.. and a concept of buddies telling you what your buddies have for ana ctual Ip adress is done better over a central server solution than decentral. Csapce is quite good in bootstrapping decentral buddies.. So retroshare needs to be a buddylist, needs to be decentral bootstrapping and then folderbrowsing, transfers and then fileswarming cames into the frame. Fist, swarming need a Hash System, why not ed2k to be compatible with buddies swarming from peers, hybrid later.. As said: swarminng from buddies is like peers with second generation ip adress forwaring, so a limited concept. It is though good for per-releases amoung buddies or for small file transfers between budies, but AOL Buddylist can this better. Well.. I just want to say the general probems and questions discussed a lot.. it is nothign against Retroshare.. jsut want to describe options.. and maybe you can profit from them for the further development. Kooocprations is always good! and as you are not a python one maybe you can join some common development or join some ideas for retroshare, If retroshare would have an DHT architectrue like Csapce, I would like to see it in emule as a buddylist.. As Cspace is young, there is no problem to clone this and be more sucesfull. but why then not joining.. and: why not a VOIP over your PGP keys in Cspace.. so Zfone of Zimmermann is done in a Waste like environment ? You see, many options, my suggestion would be to have not only buddybrowsing, but searching buddies (in any list) for an ed2k hash or: even mire: to download from a buddy indirect liek in ants p2p. Last thing: You mentioned on a board/website notice that the internet should be built up on connections only to buddies, then UPON that we can have filesharing.. this we have with Cspace, with Ants and as well with i2p.net. So.. Filesharing (is this you focus?) is built in upon two of them. Join the actual status (of th architercture design) of them.. And: In general: Your idea is very very good, to have connections (mainly) to trusted peers = Budies. Ants needs as well a better integration of buddies as trusted peers, which have the option to get the library hash as supernodes in a direct upload, non-proxied, then searches in ants would work, (so a change from jeti (jabber) buddylist in ants to capace buddylist in ants would make all more decentral!!) but this all is java and not pyhon or c++. Hope you can find some ideas for your further development, I will write soon a feedback to the application itself ind its processes. Maybe send me your key, I can test it. As we mentioned a lot of cspace, I hope it is ok, to sent the mail to Cspace users as well. - you say, scpace is a dependable networ, what does this mean exactly ? - I have a lot of buddies, but it was hard enough to get some cspace testing (all are always offline), how do you judge, I get them on retroshare to test and be a constant on buddy.? - Yes, think about collaboration with cspace. Cspace has a RSA-Key, so what is the difference to open pgp ? web of trust ? others rating me, if I am trusworthy ??? - QT Gui?-So retro and cspace are able to work under one hood ? dunno which gui cspace has.. but good !! Maybe retro can provide the hash swarming filetransfering part.. hey, i like you,, you are looking for and offering potentials .. not just seeing everything as an attac towards the own identity.. So.. where can retro meet ideas from cspace, ants and emule ? Kind regards ;-)) PS: Are you Dr Cyber Bob from the Shareaza board ? -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 00:54:15 +0000 Von: Dr Bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Hi Thom > > Had a look at waste, alliance and cspace. > > you're right. All these programs are similar in someways. But different > in others. > > Retroshare is in fact the most similar to Alliance. And like, alliance > it does > share your buddy list to allow the network to expand. > > I don't consider sharing your buddy list to be a problem, as in > RetroShare you are only sharing the > contact information, and no connection is actually allowed to the > buddies of you peers. > > The advantage that retroShare has over all of these programs is the use > of PGP style certificates, and individual p2p connections with each of > your friends. > > This has a couple of benefits: > (1) Web-of-trust authentication system, Authentication gets better and > better as the network grows. > This is the opposite of most current encrypted p2p which are > stressing anonymous connections. > (2) You share individually with Only the people you know and trust. > No-one else. > (but swarming can still happen to a limited degree) > (3) A couple of new features which will be arriving soon ;). > > The disadvantage of this system is that your network growth and > available information/data is dependent > on who you know, not how big the network is. > > Comparing retroshare to the programs you listed: > > (1) Waste.... Retroshare offers PGP authentication, meaning that Shared > secrets/Keys are not needed. > There is also no concept of a "Group" in retroshare. > Each person forms their own > ad-hoc network, independently of who other people > are connecting to. > > Waste would be better for an distributed > organisation, while retroshare would be better > for a random collection of people (ie the Internet). > > (2) Alliance... This looks similar, and it might be more user friendly > at the moment, but it hasn't even implemented > any encryption. Which is the hard part. Retroshare > has X509 authentication + PGP authentication > and so is far further developed in terms of a > security model. > > (3) Cspace... This is a far more connected network than retroshare, and > the one I know the least about. > I see Retroshare's major advantage being the PGP > authentication network. Which guarantees > you are connecting to who you think you are. Cspace > is probably a more dependable network > though.... and this is one place where retroshare > suffers at the moment (just need to get more > people using it). > > I'm not a python programmer, and so don't think I could help out with > cSpace very much. > There is however room for collaboration, if cSpace is interested in > using PGP. > (as both programs use OpenSSL for security). I've got the basic > algorithm working > but could use help in making it OpenPGP compliant. I'm also planning on > creating > a Qt GUI, perhaps there is collaboration potential there too? > > DrBob. > > > > > > hey dr bob > > > > cool idea of retroshare. > > but... do you know alliance.sf.net ? > > do you know waste.sf.net ? > > do you know cspace.in > > > > alliance is quite the same concept, only that alliance allows to see the > budylist of your friends, which is not good and insecure to see the > budylist from home for all buddies from the buddylist for work etc. > > > > Waste is the same as yours... only that waste cannto scale > 100 peers. > > > > > > Maybe we can built in retroshare soon in emule as a buddylist. > > Please, it would be good, if you can introduce a ed2k hash system ? so > that we can send ed2k links to others ? > > > > the problem is with buddies of buddies, that this is not safe. > > > > One buddy with RIAA connections can destroy the whole security concept. > > please search google for downhillbattle gaim filesharing plugin. search > zeropaid for the links, there was one argumentation, that you need proxied > transfers like in ants, if you do not know, if oyu can trust the freind of > a buddy. > > > > Even swarming is with you concept not possible, as you can see all Ip > adresses, so emule integration or ed2k link integration is quite difficult > for security, seeing all ip adesses. Non_Swarming transfers make no sense. > > > > As your tool is no hahslink-swarming one and as well no buddylist.. > there is only a perspective, if you integrate it in emule... to get those > ideas > of the community.. > > > > > > well, this mail should be appreciating the tool!!! i like it, just want > to knwo your opinioon how to solve these aspects and what´s your opinion > about them. > > > > Aren´t you interested to built in your concept in cspace.in ? it is > python, have you python knowledge ? > > > > > > If not.. please work on integration retroshare as a buddylist in emule.. > > > > > > kind regards.. > > > > > > > > > > -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer _______________________________________________ cspace-users mailing list cspace-users@tachyon.in http://tachyon.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cspace-users
