This definitely has been an interesting thread, very nice input from all,
thank you!
Not to defend, but just to share, my whole background in any of my internet
work has been, "study now, benefit later". In the mid-late '90's I took the
"Learn HTML in 30 days" book and sat in front of it and my computer for 30
days. My wife thought I was nuts! Programming was the same, everything has
been self taught. I had the good fortune of working with an internet
start-up in the SF Bay Area in the late 90's with some very excellent
programmers. A couple of whom now are big shots at BEA. They were patient
with me and just laughed behind my back and not to my face, that helped! ;-)
Perl, Java, SQL yummy! One was my manager, he walked in my office one day
with the O'Rielly vim book and said here, install that and learn this. If
your going to work with UNIX programmers you have to know vim. I was given
an clean box and a copy of Linux and told to install and use. Have a nice
day. To that point I had been all windows. (that's why I love my mac, best
of both worlds! Plus, duel mac monitors rules!!!)
As far as CSS, I got all behind standards about 2 or 3 years ago. When did
Zeldmans book on standards come out? I actually to that on vacation one
winter and read it by the fire up in Bear Valley! Smart guy, but somewhat of
a rant I must say, but there is(was/is) allot to rant about!
I actually agreed with him totally and was ready to really get into it, and
a huge programming project came along and the rest is history. I bought the
books, but time got away from me.
My initial interest in internet was to publish digital artwork to the world
for free. Publish and free where terms that were not synonymous when I was
playing music. As 20 something working musicians it was blood sweat and
tears to get anything out there, and along comes the web and now the likes
of You Tube!
You youngin's don't know how easy you have it! ;-)
Ok, so much for my going on. (Fresh coffee buzz in the AM 8^)
I'm done being discourged and irritated by the likes of this:
/* IE5.x/Win hacks */
#main {width: 960px; voice-family: "\"}\""; voice-family: inherit;
width: 750px;}
#content {width: 585px; voice-family: "\"}\""; voice-family: inherit;
width: 540px;}
#sidebar {width: 155px; voice-family: "\"}\""; voice-family: inherit;
width: 140px;}
#ish a:link, #ish a:visited {height: 65px; voice-family: "\"}\"";
voice-family: inherit; height: 52px;}
/* IE5/Mac hacks */
/*\*//*/
#navbar {padding-top: 0.75em; height: 1.66em;}
#navbar li a {display: inline;}
/**/
Now I've just got to remember what it' supposed to do. I know I read about
it somwhere once before. <sigh>
Thanks again, I will be following the links and checking them out.
The goal is to set aside a bit of time each day and refresh the brain on CSS
and Standards.
I will be here checking the list at least once a day, this seems like a very
cool group of people.
Take care, See ya'
- JJ
On 10/25/06, Arlen Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Css Discuss wrote:
>
> > What do YOU (plural) do?
> >
> > Do you say, "I'm sticking ot standards, piss on your browser if it
> > doesn't
> > look good!"?
>
> Nope.
>
> > Do you make your pages simple so that there's flexability in the
> > design, so
> > that browsers don't notice the difference?
> > (Think Google)
>
> Almost got it, but that's also a bit extreme.
>
> > Do you go bonkers (or spend a ton of time) learning the work
> > arounds so that
> > instead of a specialist in CSS you become a specialist in the work
> > arounds
> > that hopefully will be gone in a few years?!?!
>
> Exaggerated, but yes. Exaggerated, because it doesn't take tons of
> time. Rachel Andrew, bless her heart, has pulled together a bunch of
> them in CSS Anthology (Sitepoint) and Joe Lowery's CSS Hacks and
> Filters is another good source. Websites like http://tantek.com/ and
> http://www.positioniseverything.net/ as well as css-d's own http://
> css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssHack will give you most of what you
> need. You can spend a few free hours gaining a general familiarity
> with the concepts, to help you find the required hack/filter faster
> when you need it, or you can wait until you're up against it and then
> look for it.
>
> They key word in your "gone in a few years" comment is "hopefully."
> Most of the particular bugs will be gone in a few years, though some
> will, I'm sure, still be with us. The background-position: fixed bug
> of IE5 was still there in 5.5, and in 6, and it may quite possibly
> still be there in 7 (I haven't looked for it there, yet). So it
> stayed around for a decade, give or take.
>
> But even if the particular bug that a workaround was designed for is
> fixed, it'll be several more years after that before you can safely
> stop working around it, because your audience will continue to use
> buggy browsers. Those of us who survived Netscape 4.0 can tell you it
> quite often seems users are most attached to the browsers that
> perform the worst. And besides that, you can often use the workaround
> to make something else work as well.
>
> So you're not spending time learning techniques you'll only use for a
> few months or a year. The general idea behind the hacks and filters
> will be useful for many years to come. There's a lot to be said for
> Budd's POV, you should never get so you rely on only one tool, but
> they remain useful tools in your toolbox and it would be foolish to
> refrain from using them entirely.
>
> > I'd really like to get good with CSS, even REALLY good, I totally
> > intrigued
> > by them, as much as programming.
> > It just feels hiking in deep mud,.. WAY too much work. I need to
> > earn a
> > living here.
>
> Get familiar with a concept Covey calls "Sharpen the Saw." You need
> to do things today that won't pay off until later, things which will
> keep your skills sharp and keep you from becoming obsolete. This is
> one of those things. No, you won't get paid for it today, but without
> it you may not get paid tomorrow. You can't keep cutting wood
> efficiently if you don't keep the saw sharp.
>
> Hey, if it was easy, *anyone* could do it. And *then* how would you
> get paid for it?
>
> Have Fun,
> Arlen
>
> ------------------------------
> In God we trust, all others must supply data
>
>
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