DON GILLMOR: But you had people misusing them and overusing them, and simply not understanding them. The people who are describing them don't have any kind of real great understanding of how these things work. WAYNE MORRIS: I guess it is my concern that psychiatry as a whole has moved towards just offering drugs as a solution, instead of investigating other ways to help people. These drugs in themselves can have a very damaging effect on the body and brain. I believe we have another caller. MALE CALLER: I have been following this mind control series from the beginning, and find that the evidence from the survivors, and therapists and research experts is solid proof of the existence of ritual abuse and mind control - it has gone on, and it is still going on. Yet when the CBC aired the mini-series, In The Sleep Room, they advertised a comedy about dysfunctional families during that segment, in that time slot - they made a comical comment about it, which I found very distasteful - and the drama about Ewen Cameron was not accurate. Also on a phone-in TV show, Jane Hawtin Live, she had a couple of doctors from Mt. Sinai talking about cloning and how it could be beneficial. One of the doctors made a joke about multiplicity - it seems that some of the information is getting out and some of the professionals are not taking it seriously. I also heard a radio commercial which poked fun at someone who had multiple personalities and how she had to go for therapy before she could have any serious relationship. It seems that the CKLN series has reached a lot of people, but mainstream commercial culture is making a big joke about it. Do you think we will have a culture that will be bent on having a split belief system, where they make fun of schizophrenia in that manner, where money and drugs dominate one belief system -- and true values and therapy for MPD will be an underground belief? WAYNE MORRIS: I think that's what we are seeing today. Certainly in all of the information that is coming, there is going to be backlash and that certainly has been happening with organizations such as the False Memory Syndrome Foundation trying to discredit any valid accounts coming forward. In terms of the media, I think you are absolutely right. They are not taking this seriously, they haven't taken this seriously. It's something that should have been addressed by the professional media years ago and they have failed to do so. They still refuse - with very few exceptions - to look at the evidence. We have to ask the question: what are the power relationships there, between the media and the people who are actually performing these experiments in the government. Thank you for your comments. FEMALE CALLER: Thanks a lot for this series. It has really meant a lot to me to listen to it. I'm a counsellor and I mostly work with women over the last 25 years. One thing I would like to point out that makes me very nervous is the idea of the Clarke Institute for Psychiatry merging with the Addiction Research Foundation - the neanderthals at the Clarke must be rubbing their hands together just at the thought of getting a hold of drug users. It makes me very nervous as to what they may do insofar as continuing the electroshock experimentation. The other thing is one of the things I find, just in my experience, I will speak strictly from my experiences - there seem to be quite a few parallels with women - post partum depression - this is usually a time when a lot of women have discovered (after the birth of their first child) that they were sexually abused themselves and there is a real strong tie-in with post partum depression and previous sexual abuse in the new mother. One thing that makes me nervous for these women especially - because they have been used a lot in the system for drug experimentation, electroshock - just because they are depressed. It's a lot easier for the medical establishment to drug up patients rather than to listen to them and work with them. It is hard work. Getting to the bottom of some of these issues doesn't seem to be a priority - the priority seems to be "how can we get funded by a big pharmaceutical so we can pump up the victim further to make sure they don't have clarity of thought?" I know of only two cases in the last thirty years that I have dealt with personally where electroshock had any benefit whatsoever. I just want to say that. DON GILLMOR: In the case of Ewen Cameron - that's a good point - because women tended to make up a disproportionate number of the patients in that institituion. Part of the problem was that when you had women with post partum depression or women with post menopausal depression who were coming in - maybe we are retreating to this now - there was little discrimination between the groups then. So at the Allen Memorial you had alcoholics, post partum depression, schizophrenics, major psychotics. And they were all getting essentially the same treatment at least under Cameron's care. You had people getting very intrusive treatments who didn't have any kind of symptoms that would warrant that kind of invasive treatment. FEMALE CALLER: Sure. Part of it is that when a woman goes through post partum depression a lot of it is total withdrawal because her anger at previous sexual abuse is just so profound - the only way she can deal with it is to withdraw. Most of these doctors have been men - I hate to say that - it's nothing personal - but when you think about it, they couldn't perceive and deal with an angry woman - so of course she had to be crazy so let's drug her up and shock her up. That's not her role. She's supposed to be more compliant than that. How dare she be angry? We were set up - and so many are - still today. There should be real serious thought given to merging places like the Clarke with the ARF - every person that uses drugs - whether they are prescription, recreational, whatever - are going to be pathologized through this. These kinds of things make me really nervous. WAYNE MORRIS: You are absolutely right, and it seems that psychiatry is dominated by the patriarchy. It seems to be another manifestation of that. The whole approach of psychiatry - in terms of being very judgmental and not being open. I think that's why we are at the place where we are in terms of a quick fix solution with drugs, or shock them. I think if we had more women in psychiatry hopefully the situation wouldn't be as bad as it now. I would like to reinforce Don Weitz's sentiments about working towards the abolishment of psychiatry, because I think they are just barking up the wrong tree. FEMALE CALLER: I agree. Another thing I would like to mention in terms of my experience with women who have had post partum depression is that number one - it brings up memories of their own sexual abuse; and number two - we forget nutrition in a lot of this. In the fifties and sixties when Cameron was in his heyday, we were all being bombarded by the advertising telling us how great fast foods and crap like that was. Consequently we forgot to eat right, and when we don't eat right and we don't have proper nutrition, our brain doesn't work as well. We get confused, we get dehydrated. How many people drink a bottle of water a day? It's not much different today. These things are very significant - if you start to ask somebody about their eating patterns, you find that they don't have any vitamins and minerals in their systems. They eat totally processed food. WAYNE MORRIS: That's a very important point. And you have raised a significant point in terms of sexual abuse and post partum depression. I hadn't heard that before - and I think that's quite intriguing. DON WEITZ: I am glad you are calling for abolition of electroshock. A bunch of us, survivors, here and in the United States - there are about sixty groups around the world who are calling for the end of involuntary psychiatry, which certainly includes electroshock. Electroshock as a primary brainwashing weapon was always used, and still is used, against people's will. There is no such thing as giving "informed consent" for ECT - in order to give consent, you have to be informed, and people are being lied to by these shock doctors. They are not told about permanent memory loss; they are not told about brain damage; they are not told about the permanent problems with concentration. I just wanted to make it clear that when Cameron and others whom he trained, and who are now heads of psychiatry across Canada use electroshock - they are assaulting you - they are assaulting the brain. In the case of women, I call it psychiatric rape, and it is disheartening that more groups among the elderly and women are not speaking out as much as they might against electroshock - because it is targeting the elderly and women. You might have mentioned Wayne - about the problems in the media. The latest Toronto Star series - from January 10 to the 16 - was a disgusting, demonizing series. If people weren't stigmatized before the Star series. It makes everybody who has a psychiatric history - or who might come under the gun of a psychiatrist - a criminal. It promoted the myth of the "dangerous mental patient". This is the kind of media indoctrination that is really dangerous, and has to be resisted. I think they are laying the groundwork for forced drugging in the community for outpatient committal - which I have to say is unfortunately coming to Ontario and other provinces unless we resist. It is a form of fascism. Psychiatric fascsim. I urge people to sue any doctor who gives them treatment against their will. And to not buy or subscribe to the Toronto Star until it publishes articles written by psychiatric survivors, and stop pushing the medical model of mental illness. WAYNE MORRIS: We have heard allegations from survivors of government mind control who talk about the use of electricity and electroshock within their control. It is an extremely coercive method of controlling somebody. Electroshock seems to be unbelievably painful and has been used as an instrument of torture in traumatizing these people and contribute to the induction of dissociation or multiple personalities for the purpose of mind control. That this instrument of torture and trauma is used as a method of treatment is quite ironic. DON GILLMOR: In a way to some degree, there has to be discrimination between the literal concepts - mind control and brainwashing. Brainwashing from the literal perspective - 100 electroshocks, chemical means, isolation, whatever - that term is apt and you end up reducing the brain. In the case of ECT people had lost their ability for language. They were regressed right back to almost an infancy - erasing their learned behaviour. It would gradually come back in bits and pieces, leaving out all kinds of things. When you go into the mind control aspect - in the case of Cameron's work, where he had great success in brainwashing but literally no success - a spectacular lack of success in mind control. You would have all these ECT treatments - give a repeated message on a tape loop half a million times, repeated for months. At the end of that period, they couldn't repeat that message. After hearing it for half a million times, the brain would resist to such a degree. The brain is very complex. You could reduce it, but you couldn't build it back up again and that was the problem with Cameron, and that was the reason the CIA quit their funding. He had been writing papers saying he had 100% success rate, in fact his success rate was approaching zero. When they looked at the work firsthand, they realized there was nothing there for them [CIA] - the patients were incapable of doing anything. He had reduced them to almost a vegetative state, incapable of functioning. Brainwashing and mind control are, in effect, two separate ideas. MALE CALLER (Terry Parker): I wonder if people in this city, province, country are aware of the fact that children who are subject to epilepsy are being used for psychosurgical experimentation consisting of brain tissue removal showing no pathology - including the trespass of U-shaped metallic implants - does this have any role to play in the research of mind control? WAYNE MORRIS: In our interview with Dr. Colin Ross at the start of the series, he did speak of how epilepsy patients have been systematically used by the mind control doctors. There is going to be more information about that in his upcoming book. Hopefully we will have some good documentation around that. I don't have too many other details about epilepsy patients being used for mind control, but it's something that definitely be looked into. TERRY PARKER: Does Mr. GILLMOR have any kind of understanding about the issue of psychosurgery - psychiatric brain mutilation, removal of brain tissue? DON GILLMOR: No, not in the context you are talking of. The only context I have any familiarity with is with Cameron's work which involved some of those elements, but he was operating at a very crude level. Incredibly poor scientist, among other things. TERRY PARKER: I have been told by the Inspector for Complaints of the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons that I am a victim of a criminal code offence, the College has no jurisdiction to initiate a criminal investigation against its members, go to the police. I go to the Toronto Police 52 Division, and they are telling me, go back to the College. I go to the Federal government, they pass it off to the Provincial government, they pass it to the College, the College passes it on to the Police and it's a complete rigamorol. It really concerns me that we have doctors today who are obtaining consent by false pretence - they get the parent(s) to give an inch, and they take a mile and a half. It's a damn shame that children with epilepsy in this country are not being allowed to have full informed consent when it comes to brain mutilation for psychiatric research. I myself am very alarmed looking at 43 implants in the right temporal lobe of yours truly's brain - and I wonder if I am not a Manchurian Candidate - or better yet a marijuana candidate. We have no accountability from the doctors, and the media sits on the boards f directors of Toronto Sick Children's Hospital and they will not address it and yet they take great joy in covering it up. It's quite sickening. WAYNE MORRIS: Thanks for your comments Terry. That's definitely something we are going to be investigating in the next radio series. I might as well make an announcement now. We are going to be starting an investigative series into the history and development of brain implants and electronic weaponry - directed energy weapons - due to start this summer on this show. We should also address other things people can do to stop or call for an investigation into the mind control experiments. There is an ongoing campaign right now to call for a Presidential Hearing like the Radiation Hearings - into the mind control experiments on children and that is being spearheaded here in Canada by Lynne Moss-Sharman in Thunder Bay, and ACHES-MC, the Advocacy Committee for Human Experimentation Survivors - Mind Control. There is an active campaign right now for this and if the public wants to lends its support, you can write to the Canadian, USA or International contacts for ACHES-MC to support the demand for a Presidential Hearing to declassify and release the documents regarding mind control. The numbers to call are Canada 1-807-622-5407 Lynne Moss-Sharman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]); U.S.A. Patty Rehn 1-541-388-5068 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]); International Blanche Chavoustie PO Box 108, Syosset, N.Y. 11791 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Both Prime Minister Chretien and Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axworthy have responded to a request for an investigation, but the Canadian government has not acted concretely on behalf of survivors. Don, in your investigation into Cameron, did you encounter much obstruction in terms of getting government documentation, particularly from the USA? Did you make the attempt to try and get CIA documents? DON GILLMOR: I tried to get the documentation from the States and what had been released initially - the first round of original documents - which everyone had used - John Marks, etc. It wasn't really possible unless you embarked on a very expensive legal battle which is difficult to do financially, and to marshal it from here because you have to go through a Washington lawyer. It was more accessible to try and get documents from the Allen Memorial - not an easy thing either - but at least you can get some documents from there. Ultimately though the best record of this ends up being somewhat anecdotal - from doctors who were there and had differing perspectives back then - what you need is someone who felt that Cameron's work was unethical - even in the context of the times. This was always a big issue, people saying, 'well given the context of the times it wasn't all that intrusive' and there were people at the time who felt it was, in fact, unethical, and that ends up being the most valuable source. I would suspect in the case of ongoing battles of a like-minded nature, those are the key ingredients, to find people who were near these kinds of things but disapproved for various reasons. That's going to be a very difficult thing to find, but if they are found, if people do come forward, that will be of value. MALE CALLER: I am a survivor of total mind control - I am 27 years old - I came to this country nine years ago - I have a real scare for things that are going on around me - when I see this kind of political economy - especially in this province (Ontario). I was being segregated in a ghetto from my own people because they had a plan to just to exploit me. After I was segregated I was forced to live in a rooming house and there was a kind of a gas sprayed through my door and there was like a sophisticated way - they used a heater - they made a little hole from downstairs - I used to live on the second floor - and they sprayed the gas. That is supposed to be against the law - but there wasn't a law in terms of my research from 1996. I have received the law books. The Canadian Law. The Criminal Code especially - before February 1996 you cannot find any information about LSD - but now it has been covered up in the way to confuse the readers - the people who are musicians or something - the people - there are two kinds of LSD - one is a D type and one is the surgical type. WAYNE MORRIS: And I think a lot of the focus has been put on LSD drug testing when in fact they have tested hundreds of drugs from my understanding, trying to have some effect on what they want to do. A lot of these are drugs that will induce hypnosis or induce trance states, a lot of other drugs are used for coercion. I don't think LSD is the only one they have been testing - there have been hundreds of them. Dangerous drugs such as scopalomine have been used. MALE CALLER: I don't have to see other people to see my results. That's only me. From my own feedback to those people - their expectation was just my feedback - my response them. I am really glad just to hear your own program - it did help me for my own research. I have a friend that I lost, you know, he was killed here. Actually I am from Ethiopia. It's very hard. I lost nine years, my young age here, really. I was supposed to do some other things. I did have a university education for my background - I was supposed to do my university education here, I was supposed to work hard, I was supposed to help my family, but now I am being turned down, you see. Some kind of mental shit. Thanks so much. WAYNE MORRIS: Thank you for your comments, and I wish you the best of luck in trying to get what's going on with you exposed, and understood by yourself, and hopefully get some justice. I think we have just about run out of time, and we will wrap it up. I would like to thank all of the people who have phoned in and contributed to this show. I would like to thank Don Gillmor for coming in to participate. Thanks go to Darren for teching and to Min Suk who was our tech last week - I forgot to say that last week. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT IN DOING THIS RADIO SERIES. It has been quite a journey for me. I didn't know it was going to last this long. Definitely the issues are very important to a lot of people, and I thank you for your support. You have been listening to CKLN. That's it. Thank you for listening. Stay tuned next week. It's International Women's Day on CKLN. <= we're not machines you know => +++ we're not going to fall over in rows +++ Dr. King - On The Beach - 1959 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aches-mc.org ************************************************************** MINDCONTROL-L Mind Control and Psyops Mailing List To unsubscribe or subscribe: send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the following text: "unsubscribe MINDCONTROL-L" or "subscribe MINDCONTROL-L". Post to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wes Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, list moderator
