-Caveat Lector-
YnrChyldzWyld wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote:
> >You might consider that this gal is pulling your leg...
>
> Of course, such a story HAS to be a lie, doesn't it?
No it doesn't.... but then, maybe it is.. or maybe its exaggerated... But, it could be
the truth... What I said was "consider" ...
> There is no reason for me to suspect she was lying about this, as she was
> NOT the type to 'pull one's leg' over anything, let alone a subject of
> this magnitude...
However, you do suspect that anyone who reports a different experience is lying, unless
I misread your intent.
> Her husband, also from the South, related similar experiences...
>
> As have blacks of an older generation than their's...you see, I HAVE
> talked to more than one black person who grew up in the South...
That's good... perhaps in another 40 years or so, you will have talked to almost as
many as I have, considering I've lived in the South most of my life.
> >I'm not saying that she necessarily is lying,
>
> Sure you are...at least be honest about THAT...
Well, I guess your accusation is a bit more than "implied." You, Sir, have no basis
upon which to accuse me of lying about anything. If you know I any lie that I have
told, produce it, or retract your accusation...
> >but I have lived in the South my entire life and have never met anyone associated
> >with the KKK.
>
> I suppose you would like us to believe that the KKK doesn't even exist....
If you want to believe something that isn't true, you certainly can. I don't believe I
encouraged you to do so. You seem to have a little difficulty separating fact from
fancy... You are a very imaginitive fellow, it appears.
> I suppose all those lynched blacks hung themselves....
Not very likely... at least no more likely than the ones lynched in New York City and
other places outside the South. I've often wondered, and you may be able to inform me,
just how many blacks have been lynched? Do you have a state-by-state breakdown on
those numbers? Is it something that was quite common in the South, but somehow it just
escaped my notice?
> >Have you bothered to check the Klan-watch reports of KKK activity... There are more
> KKK members in Ohio and Indiana than there are in the entire South, according to the
> avowed enemies of the KKK. The northern and mid-western states have FAR MORE KKK
> members than the Southern states.
>
> That's not the point...the point of my statement was that these college-
> educated blacks -- who got their education at BLACK colleges, since they
> weren't 'allowed' to attend the white state colleges --
How old are these people? I am 61 years old, and attended a state college with black
student, in the South.
> could not find employment in their field in the South, due to their skin color...
so they say.... There may be another side to that story... I am a mangement consultant
with over 500 client companies, most of which are in the south, and I specialize in
employment law... From my experience, capable and qualified black applicants are on
every manager's "wish list."
> they had to come North to gain employment in the field they'd gotten their
> degree in...
Yeah, OK... I'm glad they obtained gainful employment somewhere.
> >> I'm sure blacks were given equal opportunity to plant & clear fields --
> >> for someone else. How many blacks OWNED this property they worked on...?
> >
> >I'd be interested in knowing those figures too... How many were there, June?
>
> That is what I'm asking....
Do your own research. I thought, on the basis of your question, that you had some
evidence that blacks were not allowed to own farms, or something. I assure you that
any black person with the money to buy a farm would not have a lot of trouble finding a
willing seller of such properties.
> >How many blacks do you figure owned the northern factories they worked in?
>
> They at least had the opportunity to be shift supervisors and managers...
> or college professors in integrated colleges, managers of integrated
> businesses....
Same here.... the North is not unique in that.
> >> How many blacks were allowed to take over important office and factory
> >> jobs, supervisory and managerial positions, when the 'able bodied men'
> >> (black men WEREN'T 'able bodied'?) were away at war?
> >
> >"Allowed to take over" ??? Are those jobs just "allotted" to folks, or do they
> >normally have to qualify for them?
>
> I was using the wording the previous poster had used, in stating that
> blacks were 'allowed' to work 'equally' with whites in the fields when
> 'all the able bodied men' were away at war...so I just wanted to know how
> many blacks also 'worked equally' with whites in positions of authority
> in the factories and offices, when the 'abled bodied men' who'd worked
> there were also off to war...
I couldn't answer that question... I will say that from about 1950 I worked at several
jobs where I had black supervisors. I do not deny that discrimination exists because
of race, and am without a doubt MORE familiar with it than you are. I lived in the
segregated South, and lived in closer harmony and proximity to blacks than most anyone
who grew up in the North. A person should not be denied any opportunity simply because
of his/her race, but opportunity and results are not the same. The majority of rural
blacks, chose not to complete high school... (I think you will find that something
close to a majority fail to complete high school now, but I'm not sure of that)... So
when you look at "numbers" of blacks in jobs that require education and skills, and the
number of blacks possessing those qualifications, it shouldn't come as a surprise that
that are fewer blacks in supervisory and management positions. I am in a position to
know, more than most people, that the owners and managers of small to medium sized
businesses in the North and the South are eager to emply capable and competent black
employees at all levels in their businesses, if for no other reason, to avoid Federal
charges of unlawful discrimination. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is simply ignorant of
the facts.
My (ex)son-in-law is a black man... He attended a Southern Baptist university in a
small east Texas town... He has encountered no difficulty in obtaining executive-level
jobs, and is highly recruited by other companies *primarily because of* his race. My
soon-to-be "grandson-in-law" is Mexican, and he will tell you quite openly that he is
offered scholorships and management-level "fast-track" positions *because* he is
Mexican. My sixteen-year-old granddaugher (who's father is black) has been told
repeatedly by high school counselors that "any university will grab the opportunity for
you to attend," *because of her race* -- notwithstanding she is a "A" student.
Hawk
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