-Caveat Lector-
My brother was at a gym once where kids were working on gymnastics. I
believe it was a summer camp. Anyway there the regular pop music of the
day on the radio (70s). The coach said to my brother that he was going
to show him something interesting. He said notice how well the gymnasts
are doing right now. He watched for a minute or two. Then he put on a
record of German marches. The kids improved immediately.
BTW. If you want to hear real Nazi music, listen to Carl Orff's Carmina
Burana. It was commissioned by the Nazis and I have heard that it was
commissioned by the head of the SS, Himmler. I don't know the latter for
sure, but I do know the former. I was in an orchestra that played it
once. The conductor announced that one of our very own members was in
the orchestra that first premiered it in Vienna and he introduced a
cellist and asked him to speak about it. He started telling about the
performance being severely booed. But said it wasn't necessarily because
the people didn't like the music. Rather that this was their way of
demonstrating against Hitler since the nazis had commissioned the music
and this was just after Austria's takeover by Germany. You should have
seen the face on the conductor. Our rehearsals were held in the local
Jewish community center.
Howard Davis
ps. The nazi connection to the occult and also to "butch" homosexuality
seem to have been covered up. I once read a book about Jan Karski the
Polish underground courier who purposely went into a Nazi death camp so
he could report on it when he got to England. He had been picked up
earlier by the Gestapo and had been interrogated by a twentish SS
officer. He noticed that the officer treated him very warmly and
respectfully, etc. And also that he had spoken extensively about his
years as a Hitler youth. He had told Karski how he had been the
protogete of the leader of the Hitler youth, but had fallen out of
favor, etc. It sounded to me like the guy was trying to get Karski to
become his lover. I looked up the name of the guy who had been the
leader of the Hitler youth and it turned out that he had had an
extensive background of problems with pederasty. I wrote to Karski
suggesting that the SS officer was trying to seduce him. Karski replied
that "I seemed to have a deep knowledge".
As for the occult. I too have read those books. I did an extensive study
of the Holocaust and in arguing with some of the Holocaust deniers I
finally came to the realization that they were not merely arguing over
facts and interpretation, but rather that they were coming from a deep
spiritual attachment to Hitler. This was evidenced to me by one who
finally admitted that the Holocaust may have happened, but that Hitler
did not know about it. This, of course, is ridiculous. But it did seem
to indicate a strong belief in Hitler going far beyond anything
explainable from a rational point. After reading the connections between
Hitler and the occult, I began to think that this whole thing was more
explainable on a spiritual level. I had never believed much in demon
possession, but it began to be more understandable to me after these studies.
YnrChyldzWyld wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Colleen Jones wrote:
> >Now is has been a long time since I read the above book (1980 about) and
> >hear Wagner's ring.....
>
> I still have my copy, I believe, if you want me to look anything up...
> I know my local library still has it, since I noticed it on the shelf a
> few weeks ago...
>
> An even more interesting book (which I haven't been able to finish) goes
> by the title of Fire and Ice, I believe....goes into the history of the
> occult movements which were going strong in Germany in general, and
> Vienna in particular, in the 19th and early 20th century, and how such
> societies had an influence on Hitler, and eventually the whole Nazi
> party.
>
> >People have been waiting for the Messiah's return now for nearly 2,000
> >years;
>
> Ignoring the fact that:
>
> a) 2000 years ago, they were on a totally different calendar
> than we are now, and
>
> b) the Bible states that no one knows the time that Jesus will
> return, that it does NOT go by any one date; it only states
> that the discerning will recognize certain signs, which it
> describes in Daniel and Revelations, amongst other books...
>
> >some believe he will be reincarnated,
>
> Which is not scripturally supported...
>
> >So, I think we have another thousand years to go....two thousand years
> >is a long time to wait on anyone, but when he descends, allegedly his
> >heel will hit the top of a mountain....book called Footsteps of Orpheus
> >stated there are people drilling at the foot of this mountain now....
>
> Perhaps you can point out the actual passages of SCRIPTURE which purport
> to make these claims....?
>
> >Such is life....Hitler thrived on Nazi Marching bands, not Wagner.
>
> Wagner was his favorite composer, and he not only attended performance of
> Wagner, but would listen to him on records when relaxing...
>
> I had a friend of Germanic extraction who I knew from highschool, who
> wrote a book (unpublished) about WWII from the German perspective, and
> who would listen to Wagner at a drop of the hat....hence, I ended up with
> a fair amount of interest in Nazi Germany myself, esp. the parts NOT
> presented to the public, either by the Nazis themselves, or from the
> mainstream history mavens...
>
> But I could never get into Wagner...he's okay, I don't absolutely HATE
> his music, The Ride of the Valkyries IS stirring....but give me Mozart,
> Handel, Vivaldi, Tellemann, and Bach any day...
>
> Or George Gershwin...
>
> >Must get this stuff out again; but I had my favorite parts. Always
> >liked Midsummers Night Dream...which I nearly wore out on my "record
> >player"...."I am sent with broom before to sweep the dust behind the
> >door"....Shakespeare held a lot of masonic stuff too.
>
> The Freemasons didn't exist during Shakespeare's time (altho THEY
> might like to claim otherwise, there are no FACTS to support their
> existance before the 18th century)...
>
> June
>
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>
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
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CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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