-Caveat Lector- FYI, Bard Visit: http://www.infowars.com/ -----Original Message----- From: David Gould [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 4:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [freedomfight] Freedom This, below, is as good as it gets, and, it establishes the basis of what I have been saying. Their IS NO SOLUTION WITHIN WASHINGTON, DC, POSSIBLE. You are not only wasting your time, you are empowering that which is defeating you. Their is one other item which needs to be added to this; I have been asked time and again, how can I be so sure that Christianity is "the True" Law, or religion, or whatever the question of the moment happens to be. Christianity is the only system of Law, His Law, which exists or can exist, which establishes a King (the authority to write Law), and from there all authority passes to the People, and from there, to their agents. All all "systems" first establish a hierarchy, then, in decending order, to the very bottom, where are found the people. You will always find that this is why Christianity is so hated by those who fancy themselves in charge. Someday, you may also find the difference in law and Law; where law is written by men, who then hire thugs to enforce THEIR law. Law, by Him, is self-enforcing. If you doubt this, see what your ignoring of His Law has done to you. David G. First let me say I think that the Royal house in England established its subjecting power in America. It has been doing that before and since the 'revolution'. It has to do it not by its Law but By God's LAW. Consent, exchange, contract... Their law kicks in when we consent. If our consent and actions bind us, according to God's LAW, we cannot get out with out their consent or we brake God's LAW. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Other wise we are simply held by pirates and to fight to free yourself is not revolution.. Note: "Those captured by pirates and robbers remain free." Because "Things captured by pirates and robbers do not change ownership." They must bind us according to God's LAW. England was closing the door to freedom for 500 years. When William the Conquerer defeated Harold his cousin at Hastings in 10 66 he obtained no more authority than Harold had originally, except for those free noblemen who were foolish enough to fight with Harold and lost. Many free noblemen of England did not support Harold in his trial by combat with his cousin and they kept their lands which were not entered into William's survey of Land and the Doomsday Book. But then America was discovered. It was the land that Brendan from Ireland had sought and discovered and claimed for the Lord in 400AD. He had called it, "The land promised to the Saints by God." Who was going to own this land? If Jesus was a King and Charles was a King both men could claim the Land in America. Please. Stay on point with me. Don't let theology sweep you away, Hang in there. When my GGGgradfather came here [early 1600's] he claimed land, so did the king's men, so did lots of men. Yes! The United States is in cohorts with the British kings, who are not British. Note that those kings of the British are the prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire. See treaties. The Holy Roman Empire recognized Jesus as a King. Their official Procurator said it three times and posted it for the World to see. The Kings of England recognize this proclamation and have published it over and over in the King James Version of the Bible. THAT IS THE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS. WE WERE SPIRITUALLY AND PHYSICALLY REDEEMED. We have to physically and spiritually follow the Christ, The King, of a Christian Republic that has survived in the heart of the Roman Empire Since the days that Jesus walked among us. There is more to this America vs British Colony/US but this should be enough to Chew. Bellow is a post I sent in a response. to a British Colony Vs Free Country debate on another list. Trust be there is more going on here than the king's school system wants you to know about concerning the colonies at kings ***************** British Colony Vs Free Country He said.... He said WOAH!! Let me add my too sense (Lyle) Your allusions here and below are that the King came to this country and conquered it. Obviously not true. The King never set foot on this continent, nor did he conquer it. He wrote Charters describing what he claimed to own. Pieces of paper. You make further allusions (illusions) below. (insert Gregory's two cents) Good point. It had taken almost 500 year for the crowns bind up and the land of Britain and enter it in the Doomsday Book when they discovered a whole new world. The foot thing is good. Possession is, as it were, the position of the foot. Possessio est quasi pedis positio. 5 Coke, 42. But actually he did his foot over to America. The king sent his representatives with feet. Like Armstrong on the Moon. But did he only send His Representatives? Did some others come to claim some land in their own interest? (see answer at bottom of page) (Lyle) I haven't been talking about the bankers. But in previous posts from "BIG AL" he has asserted that the BANKERS ARE THE TRUE PROBLEM. Do you now disagree with "BIG AL?" (insert Gregory's two cents) Big All has a point if you include our participation with the BANKERS SYSTEM. But does every one participate. (Lyle) But you said above, "WE WON, THE LAND IS OURS." So to hell with his law. (insert Gregory's two cents) It doesn't work that way in the law of nations. This was a trial by combat over specific issues. Like the battle of Hastings all Royal claims did not stop some transferred temporarily at least.. We still honored Spanish land grants and rights in wars with Mexico. Lyle) Actually it would be "irrevocable trust." Isn't that sort of an "OXYMORON?" Can something placed in trust be "not recoverable?" What would the purpose of such foolishness be? Does a trust not get broken, surrendered, or folded stapled and mutilated by an act of WAR? Please be serious in your response. NOTE TO ALL: James has stated previously that "WE WON, THE LAND IS OURS." Does that not apply to these trusts? Hmmmm? (insert Gregory's two cents) If a trust can be made it can be unmade. It is only irrevocable from a certain point of view. It is often dependent on who holds the contract upon which the trust is based. (See below.) There was a trust and a contract. The King was to protect from foreign invasion and could collect certain taxes to finance that. He brought in foreign troops and imposed taxes beyond his authority. = unwarranted usurpation There still was a trust in affect. But with who? (James) Nor did we kill the king and his heirs, thereby taking possession of his lands. This is only way we could, or can have allodial title to this land, the only other way under the king's common law for us to posses title to this land is by lessor title and grant. (insert Gregory's two cents) Actually we did kill the king. The first Charter of Charles I was written with an offer in mind. There was a revolution in England at the time. Roundheads and the Wigs... The king new the Puritans were turning the tide. He had a plan. Make a Charter where they could have a shot at freedom in America and it will divide his protagonists. Then Cromwell beat him anyway, established an English Republic and tried the King then cut his head off at White Hall. Royalists swarmed to America where Cromwell was compelled to send troops across the sea to protect the 'American republics'. Answers:****************** "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance... For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally, the Forms of our Governments:" Thomas Jefferson Dof I In the spring before independence was declared by the colonies in 1776, the various states gathered in local assemblies to hammer out laws by which they would govern themselves. The King had broken his contract. Connecticut and Rhode Island simply rewrote their old colonial charters, ex-ing out any references to the king and parliament. But the remaining states drafted entirely new constitutions. Lyle' asked, "You were there? What was it like? " Well let me tell you what they said. Even before the so called American revolution the united States found that, "Natural law was the first defense of colonial liberty." Also, "There was a secondary line upon which much skirmishing took place and which some Americans regarded as the main field of battle. The colonial charters seemed to offer an impregnable defense against abuses of parliamentary power because they were supposed to be compacts between the king and people of the colonies; which, while confirming royal authority in America, denied by implication the right of Parliament to intervene in colonial affairs. Charters were grants of the king and made no mention of the parliament. They were even thought to hold good against the King, for it was believed that the King derived all the power he enjoyed in the colonies from the compacts he had made with the settlers. Some colonists went so far to claim that they were granted by the 'King of Kings'-and therefore 'no earthly Potentate can take them away.'"1 There may be many who would disagree with this statement but I would suggest that when the powers that would be began to manipulate American perception of history, information concerning the Charters was the first to go. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/issu10w.htm#lamp Remember that neither the Americas or the kings were homogenous groups. Charles I's Reign ended with the plot in a basket. Charles II, known as 'Good Time Charley',' was the son of a Catholic and the head of the Church of England. Charles II granted the Pennsylvania Charter in payment of debt to William Pen(nington). A debt he could not have paid otherwise. When William went to collect the debt he refused to take off his hat in the presence of the King which could have lost him his head. The king said that one of them should so he did and agreed to the Charter. Note The First Charter of Carolina. 1662. CHARLES II" 18th.P. And because it may happen that some of the people and inhabitants of the said Province, cannot in their private opinions, conform to the publick exercise of religion, according to the liturgy form and ceremonies of the Church of England, or take and subscribe the oath and articles, made and established in that behalf, and for that the same, by reason of the remote distances of these places, will, we hope, be no breach of the unity and uniformity established in this nation; ..." Who were these guys who would not take oaths and why did the king hope for no breach. Those are not the words of a lord in a contract where he holds all the cards. There was authority slipping from [and had slipped] these Kings. These Charters did not grant freedom but they allowed for the opportunity to obtain free dominion = freedom. This was a period of great unrest in the world and England had imposed the Oath of Supremacy in order to insure loyalty. Catholics were required to take it before entering Virginia according to the Charter of Virginia. 1606 There were many who would not take it including Quakers and Separatists. John Adams said that when the grantees of the "Massachusetts Bay Charter carried it to America they 'got out of the English realm, dominions, state, empire, call it by what name you will, and out of the legal jurisdiction of the Parliament. The king might, by his writ or proclamation, have commanded him to return; but he did not. By this interpretation, the charters accorded Americans' all the rights and privileges of a natural free-born subject of Great Britain and gave colonial assemblies the sole right of imposing taxes."2 "Accordingly, when Americans were told that they had no constitutional basis for their claim of execution from parliamentary authority, they answered, 'Our Charters have done it absolutely.' 'And if one protests,' remarked a Tory, 'the answer is, You are an Enemy to America, and ought to have your brains beat out.' Pennsylvania Journal and Weekly Advertiser, September 4, 1766, Supplement."3 Almost from the beginning of English settlement, the government permitted the tradition of local liberty to take such firm root in America that Alexander Hamilton could say in 1775 that 'the rights we now claim are coeval with the original settlement of these colonies.'4 Samuel Adams stated, on August 1, 1776 within one month of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, "Our Union is complete; our constitution composed, established, and approved. You are now the guardians of your own liberties. We may justly address you, as the decemviri did the Romans, and say: 'Nothing that we propose can pass into law without your consent. Be yourself, O Americans, the authors of those laws on which your happiness depends.'" The early Americans let the Facts be submitted to a candid world in their Declaration of Independence as they stood against the King of Great Britain. Their complaint was not due to taxation without representation as is popularly taught in public schools. They did speak of an absolute Despotism and that it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. That new Guard became the state malitia, but now has been replaced by a federal army and soon a U.N. police force. So what was the history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny. The list is long and numerous and sounds like a description of life in these United States, but it does included taxes imposed without consent. "For imposing taxes on us without our Consent:5" "The term ` sovereign power' of a state is often used without any very definite idea of its meaning, and it is often misapplied... The sovereignty of a state does not reside in the persons who fill the different departments of its government, but in the People, from whom the government emanated; and they may change it at their discretion. Sovereignty, then, in this country, abides with the constituency, and not with the agent; and this remark is true, both in reference to the federal and state government."6 The problem here again is taking a statement out of the context of time, when it was said. Who were the 'People, from whom the government emanated'? �We are not contending that our rabble, or all unqualified persons, shall have the right of voting, or not be taxed; but that the freeholders and electors, whose right accrues to them from the common law, or from charter, shall not be deprived of that right.�The Works of Alexander Hamilton, edited by Henry Cabot Lodge, N Y, 1904, I, 172. 9 Ibid., March 31, 1768. �The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state.� In re Merriam, 36 N.E.505, 141 N.Y. 479, affirmed 16 S. Ct. 1073, 163 U.S. 625, 41L.Ed 287; 20 CJS, S 1785. It was the people who owned land. The Separatist owned land and the Royalists and the average farmer in America owned land not entered in the English Doomsday book of surveyed property of the crown to which subjects could only own legal title. If you only have legal title you don't own land, You are not a freeman and therefore are subjects. The United States is virtually a part of that which England is a part. It is not just the British Empire but the UN holy Roman Empire. Someone needs to establish land outside their system and the only way that will be successful is if it is done in the name of the Church established by Jesus 2000 years ago. "�Where, Say Some, is the king of America? I�ll tell you, Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the royal brute of Great Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honours, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on divine law, the Word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be king; and there ought to be no other. But lest any ill use should afterwards arise, let the crown at the conclusion of the ceremony be demolished, and scattered among the People whose right it is.�" Thomas Paine�s Common Sense. US is a colony of the British kings but the Church is the colony of Jesus the Christ. Gregory at the [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://presys.com/~ekklesia/welcome.htm home page P. S. If any of you have actually read down this far and you know the name and address of any unregistered Church please send me what information you have on it or them. Thanks. Footnotes: 1 The Other Side of the Question, by a Citizen, New York, 1774, 16. 2 Principles and Acts of the Revolution, edited by H. Niles, 16. 3 174-175 Origins of the American Revolution by John C. Miller. 4 The Works of Alexander Hamilton, edited by Henry Cabot Lodge, New York, 1904, I, 172. 9 Ibid., March 31, 1768. 5 The Declaration of Independence 6 Spooner v. McConnell, 22 Fed. Cas. 939, 943. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/freedomfight http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
