Bob Stokes wrote:
>
> In a message dated 00-06-18 17:24:33 EDT, Joshua2 writes:
>
> << They
> are our very own occupying troops, and would shoot you and me down like rabid
> dogs in the street if ordered to even though we pay their wages and are the
> citizens of the country they suposedly work for. >>
>
> This is not true. You don't know, you haven't been there, I was for
> twenty years. You are misinformed, it is the controllers of the Soldiers,
> Sailors, Airmen and Marines who misuse our military. We need a strong
> military to preserve our freedom (such as it is) but we shouldn't be
> policeman for Corporate thieves. We have no need to be in a foreign country
> without a declared war. Control of the "Elites" is what we need, not control
> of the man behind the gun. Perhaps control of the high ranking officers in
> charge would be the way to do this, but as Congress is corrupt, so are the
> Generals and Admirals ... most of the high-ranking officers aren't in it for
> the money, just the power.
> The elites won't order the military to fight civilians on a large scale
> because they know they would lose. Members of the military are no longer in
> the dark. They have access to the internet as provided by the military
> itself. They can see the different threads.
I hope you're right Bob but I am forced to believe otherwise. The government
and the Military have been eroding the Posse Comitadas (?) protections over a
period of years now, and all it takes is for the Presidents signature to use
the military against its own citizens.
And then there's shit like this...
***KILL U.S. CITIZENS, BLAME CUBA
Now comes documentation on other plans the Pentagon was
pursuing in those days. Articles by Tim Weiner in the New
York Times Nov. 19 and Nov. 23 tell of some of them.
The military plans approved for development by the Joint
Chiefs of Staff on March 13, 1962, as part of the CIA's
Operation Mongoose included:
u Operation Bingo, a plan to fake an attack on the U.S.
base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, providing cover for a
devastating U.S. military assault on Havana.
u Operation Dirty Trick, a plot to blame Fidel Castro if
the 1962 Mercury space flight carrying John Glenn crashed.
u A "Remember the Maine" incident, in which "we could blow
up a U.S. warship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," said a
Pentagon memorandum. "We could develop a Communist Cuban
terror campaign in the Miami area," it went on, "in other
Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign
could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the
United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route
to Florida (real or simulated), or create an incident which
will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has
attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner."
The Times reports said no there is no evidence that these
plans were ever carried out. Perhaps.
Perhaps others that did become operational are still
classified "top secret." Cuba has provided very convincing
evidence, for example, of bacteriological and biological
warfare aimed at its crops and livestock.
Nevertheless, these few scenarios reveal enough about the
mentality of the military to demolish the benign image of
U.S. foreign policy so carefully cultivated by the rulers of
this country. In truth, Washington hasn't changed since the
days when U.S. Marine Corps Gen. Smedley Butler said he had
been nothing but a gangster working for U.S. banks and
corporations in Latin America in the 1920s. ****************
=======================================================
Department Of Defense:
Les Aspin, Secretary of Defense -- CFR
Frank G. Wisnerll, Under Secretary for Policy -- CFR
Henry S. Rowen, Asst. Sec., International Security Affairs -- CFR
Judy Ann Miller, Dep. Asst. Sec. Nuclear Forces & Arms Control -- CFR
W. Bruce Weinrod, Dep. Asst. Sec., Europe & NATO -- CFR
Adm. Seymour Weiss, Chairman, Defense Policy Board -- CFR
Charles M. Herzfeld, Dir. Defense Research & Engineering -- CFR
Andrew W. Marshall, Dir., Net Assessment -- CFR
Michael P. W. Stone, Secretary of the Army -- CFR
Donald B. Rice, Secretary of the Air Force -- CFR
Franklin C. Miller, Dep. Asst. Sec. Nuclear Forces & Arms Control -- CFR
Allied Supreme Commanders:
1949-52 Eisenhower -- CFR
1952-53 Ridgeway -- CFR
1953-56 Gruenther -- CFR
1956-63 Norstad -- CFR
1963-69 Lemnitzer -- CFR
1969-74 Goodpaster -- CFR
1974-79 Haig -- CFR
1979-87 Rogers -- CFR, TC
Superintendents of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point:
1960-63 Westmoreland -- CFR
1963-66 Lampert -- CFR
1966-68 Bennett -- CFR
1970-74 Knowlton -- CFR
1974-77 Berry -- CFR
1977-81 Goodpaster -- CFR
CFR Military Fellows, 1991:
Col. William M. Drennan, Jr., USAF -- CFR
Col. Wallace C. Gregson, USMC -- CFR
Col. Jack B. Wood, USA -- CFR
CFR Military Fellows, 1992:
Col. David M. Mize, USMC -- CFR
Col. John P. Rose, USA -- CFR
Joint Chiefs of Staff:
Adm Wm. Crowe, Chairman -- CFR
Gen. Colin L. Powell, Chairman -- CFR
Gen. Carl E. Vuono, Army -- CFR
Gen. John T. Chain, Co Sac -- CFR
Gen. Merril A. Mcpeak, Co Pac AF -- CFR
Lt. Gen. George L. Butler, Dir. Strategic Plans & Policy -- CFR
Lt. Gen. Charles T. Boyd, Com. Air Univ. -- CFR
Lt. Gen. Bradley C. Hosmer, AF Inspector General -- CFR
Secretaries of Defense:
1957-59 Mcelroy -- CFR
1959-61 Gates -- CFR
1961-68 McNamara -- CFR, TC
1969-73 Laird -- CFR
1973-75 Richardson -- CFR, TC
1975-77 Rumsfeld -- CFR
1977-80 Brown -- CFR, TC
1980-88 Weinberger -- CFR, TC
1988- Carlucci -- CFR
1988- Cheney -- CFR
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> BOB>
> Those of us who were in the
> military see that things are not as they should be and are prepared (unlike
> many others) to go that extra mile if we can see the path is straight. I've
> seen no one on this or any other list who can see the clear way to end the
> rule by the elites. I see that we need to control the corporations setup by
> the government, at least till true "free trade" can be established with
> government neither aiding or discouraging free trade. Corporations as a
> whole are given a charter by government and are aided by the Federal Reserve
> and by laws that give Corps a break. The present government does not speak
> for us, but for the rich, the filthy rich and they preserve the corporations
> by stealing money from us via taxes and fees and by devaluating the currency.
> It's all about money for the rich and as soon as we can abolish income
> taxes, the Fed and hold government to only Constitutional authority, the
> sooner things will get back to normal ... the way they were more than a
> quarter of a millenium ago ... small, weak government. What say you?
>
> Regards,
> Bob Stokes
We agree totally on your assesment up to the point where you place most of the
blame on the government. The problem is not so much the government as it is
the economic system. The Capitalist system created the Rich, the Super Rich,
and their corporations. Not just in this country, but in other countries with
diferent forms of government than ours. They are also in the same boat as we.
Until you people on the Right, and especially Libertarians come to grips with
this, nothing much will change. The ONLY institution that Corporations and the
Rich are afraid of is GOVERNMENT. The only powerful institution we have ANY
influence over is the government. It would be stupid and suicidal for me to
destroy ( rather than capture ) the only weapon lethal enough to kick the shit
out of large corporations. Microsoft being a perfect example.
The problem is Capitalism. The symptoms are concentration of power and wealth
into a few hands. The outcome is fascism.
Joshua2
PS: The Marines are ready and willing to be used against their own population.
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