-Caveat Lector-
>>A public street is just that -- PUBLIC. One can't expect complete privacy
>>when out in PUBLIC.
>
>Precisely, but the cameras in question are aimed at people on public
>streets.
No they're not. People walking on a public street are of absolutely no
interest to these people. They wish to take pictures of people entering and
leaving a PRIVATE BUSINESS....
>Once the targeted individuals enter the threshold of the
>establishment at issue, the camera does not follow.
It doesn't matter if the person has entered the threshold of the
establishment...as soon as they leave the public street or public sidewalk
and drive into the private parking lot or set foot on the private walkway
leading to the door of the private building, they are on private property
even though they are outside and can be seen from the public street...
You can sit out on the front porch of your house, and just because you can
be seen by those who are on the public road or public sidewalk, it does NOT
give someone the right to videotape, film, or take a snapshot of you without
your express permission...especially if the person who is capturing your
image plans to put that image up for public display and viewing...
>A place of business is a PRIVATE establishment, according to the law...
>
>Correct, and said camera persons do not enter the establishment.
But they are still capturing the images of people entering and leaving the
building, which means they are capturing the images of people who are on
PRIVATE PROPERTY, not out on the public street or sidewalk.
>They electronically monitor the comings and goings of persons onto and off
>of a public street at a specified location--according to the forward anyway
It is very unlikely that the abortion clinic has a doorway opening
immediately out onto a public street or sidewalk; I don't know any such
building that isn't set off the sidewalk by at least a few feet; as soon as
anyone steps off of the public sidewalk to enter the building, they are on
private property, even if that property is only a foot long...
I also doubt that everyone going into the abortion clinic took public
transportation, so in all likelihood the majority of people who are having
their images captured DROVE there and parked in a PRIVATE parking lot on
PRIVATE property, and walked on PRIVATE property to get to the door of the
PRIVATE building.
>>Same thing applies if someone drives into an abortion clinic's parking
>>lot, which is private property,
>
>Not always, but point taken.
It's the same thing as walking on the same street...no one driving on a
public street has a reason to expect complete privacy. Someone driving on
that street could have their image captured with no violation of any law.
But as soon as that vehicle turns into a private parking lot it is on
private property and the person can't have their image captured without
their express permission being given...
>>But where are these volunteers and their cameras stationed? If they are
>>outside the clinic, they are trespassing on private property.
>
>Define "outside."
I meant 'immediately outside', meaning they're standing on the clinic's
property right at the door or at a window...
>> If they are out on the public sidewalk or street, they are loitering.
>
>Presumably only if they are caught
Loitering is loitering, whether one is caught at it or not. That's like
saying a robber isn't a thief if he isn't caught...loitering is against the
law in most municipalities....
>or if an issue is made of their presence.
One would assume the clinic would do so...
If I were the clinic I'd turn the tables on the antichoice nuts and start
videotaping THEM...at least to provide evidence to the authorities of
loitering, and/or trespassing, and/or violations of local privacy laws. If
I was the clinic, I'd also put up my own website showing the images of these
terrorists....and since the terrorists are either loitering on a PUBLIC
street or sidewalk, or trespassing on the clinic's property, the clinic
wouldn't be violating and privacy laws by making those images available for
the public to see on the Internet...
>>If they are on the clinic's property, one assumes that the clinic wouldn't
>>hesitate to press charges.
>
>Agreed. Hence the best solution to the issue in general: place such clinics
>within larger buildings which have functions other than the specific
>purpose of providing abortions (hospitals, shopping malls, etc.).
Actually shopping malls wouldn't work, because courts have ruled that
shopping malls are considered 'public places', having replaced the village
green as a central meeting point....so legally one would have no problem
capturing the images of anyone entering or leaving an abortion clinic that
was located in a mall...
And due to insurance concerns -- because of these terrorists going beyond
peaceful protest to bombings and shootings -- no mall owner would ever allow
an abortion clinic to rent space in the mall...
>>But a public figure still has a reasonable right to privacy in most cases.
>
>Most cases? These cases/exceptions are? Precedent would be helpful.
The very example I gave...no one has a right to set up a webcam in the
toilets of the White House to capture an image of Bush taking a leak or
dumping a load, and claim that they have a First Amendment right to be
allowed to do so...
Same reason that certain rooms in the White House are off-limits to the
public...those are the private living quarters of the President and his
family, and they have a right to expect privacy in those rooms, even though
those rooms are 'public property' paid for by taxpayer dollars...
June
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