-Caveat Lector- So here Eric - read of this base - been there long time and remember years ago some problems re Castro but forget all details.
O'Saba The U.S. Navy in Cuba HOST: Rear Admiral Gene LaRocque (USN, Ret.) Director, Center for Defense Information INTERVIEWER & NARRATOR: Sanford Gottlieb, Senior Producer MARKETING & OPERATIONS: Mark Sugg PRODUCERS: Nick Moore Daniel Sagalyn PRINCIPAL ANALYST & SCRIPTWRITER: Sanford Gottlieb PROGRAM PRODUCER: Mark Sugg ORIGINATION: Washington, D.C. PROGRAM NO.: 228 & 315 INITIAL BROADCAST: 3/19/89 "THE U.S. NAVY IN CUBA" features comments by: Rep. CHARLES BENNETT (D-Florida) House Seapower Subcommittee Rear Admiral EUGENE CARROLL, Jr. (US Navy, Ret.) Deputy Director, Center for Defense Information MANUEL DAVIS Cuban Interests Sections CONSTANTINE MENGES American Enterprise Institute WAYNE SMITH The Johns Hopkins University "The U.S. Navy in Cuba" ADM. LA ROCQUE: Hello, I'm Gene La Rocque, Rear Admiral, United States Navy, Retired, Director of the Center for Defense Information. Welcome once again to "AMERICA'S DEFENSE MONITOR." The Caribbean has long been a matter of great importance to the United Sta es, so much so that historically we've thought of the Caribbean as an American lake. Well, today the scene in the Caribbean is changing, it's modernizing, it's different. And so, today we're going to look at the Caribbean to see whether or not, in fact, it is still an American lake and whether or not it should be. INTERVIEWER: Are there any communist countries where there are American troops'? WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Which one? WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: Which one. Let's see. Yugoslavia. MAN-IN-THE-STREET: I believe they have probably bases around in -- I'd say Iran, right outside of Iran. WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: Nicaragua? MAN-IN-THE-STREET: Are there any communist countries where there's American troops? I don't think so, un-huh, no now. INTERVIEWER: Could you think of any? WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: Russia? WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: Have most people gotten this answer right? INTERVIEWER: Most people have go ten this answer wrong. SAME WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: It's shameful, huh? Oh, yes. Well, good luck. I hope you find someone that knows a little bit about American history. NARRATOR: Each day almost 3000 US citizens go to work in a communist country with which the United States has no official diplomatic and economic relations. They are the military and civilian personnel assigned to Guantanamo Naval Base in the southeastern corner of Cuba. Guantanamo has been occupied by the US Navy for almost three-quarters of a century. INTERVIEWER: What would you think if I told you we have troops in Cuba'? WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: We do? I really didn't know that.. NARRATOR: Here in the United, States, the issue of the naval base is not well-known or understood, but in Cuba, all of the 11 million inhabitants are aware of the US military presence in Guantanamo. MR. MANUEL DAVIS: For the Cubans, the military presence of he United States in Guantanamo is an insult and it's a violation of our sovereignty. It's blatant (Inaudible words.), it's something that remind us the aggressive intentions of the colossus from the North. The base exists in Cuba against the will of our people. NARRATOR: Manuel Davis works here, in this building in Washington, DC that served for years as Cuba's embassy, but the embassy was closed in 1961 when relations with Fidel Castro's government were severed. Today it houses the Cuban Interests Section, following an agreement with President Carter after 17 years of no contact between .he two countries. But the Cubans cannot fly their flag here, as other embassies in Washington do. Today "AMERICA'S DEFENSE MONITOR" will look at the US military presence in the Caribbean, at US-Cuban relations and at. "Gitmo," as American sailors call Guantanamo, their base in Cuba, a base that has long divided Cuba and the United Sates on a very emotional level. We'll include seldom-heard comments from Cuban officials. The Caribbean evokes images of the swashbuckling pirates of yesteryear and he lush tourist getaways of today. The sea is about a million square miles, one-third the size of he continental United Sta es. It is surrounded by a long string of islands to the North and East and 4500 miles of Central an South American coastline to the South and West. This entire region is known as the Caribbean Basin. Within the Basin, there are over 800 islands, which together would equal the size of Utah. The smaller islands are called the Lesser Antilles. The larger islands, called the Greater Antilles, include Puerto Rico; Hispaniola, which is divided into French-speaking Haiti and the Spanish-speaking Dominican Republic; Jamaica; and Cuba. North of these lie the Bahamas. The coastline on the mainland stretches from Mexico through six Central American countries o Colombia and Venezuela. Because the Caribbean is nestled near the United States, it has long felt the influence of its powerful northern neighbor. MR. WAYNE SMITH: Well, the United States has always considered the Caribbean o be an American lake, our sphere of influence. NARRATOR: For over 200 years before the United States arrived on the scene, European navies competed for control of the Caribbean islands and sea. The British, French and Dutch challenged Spanish dominance after Christopher Columbus discovered the region in 1492. They all eventually established colonies of their own, importing 5 million African slaves to work sugar, tobacco and o her plantations. The United States, quickly developing into a regional power, challenged the Europeans for influence in the Caribbean with the Monroe Doctrine in 1923. The Doctrine told the European powers to keep out of the region. Our relationships in he Caribbean have been stormy. Early policy focused on containing the influence of Haiti, the second country in the New World after the United States achieve independence. A massive slave rebellion in Haiti won independence from France in 1804. The United States, fearing he spread of slave rebellions, did not recognize Haitian independence until Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation almost 60 years later. The United States has intervened in the Caribbean Basin with military force 60 times to support its declared interests in the region, more than anywhere else in he world. These miliary actions included some lengthy occupations: 25 years in Haiti, 9 years each in the Dominican Republic and Cuba, and 12 years in Nicaragua on he Central American mainland. MR. DAVIS: The presence of the United States in the Caribbean and the role played by the United States in the Caribbean has been a very destabilizing factor, has been a permanent threat: to he small nations of he region. NARRATOR: But it is Cuba, the largest island, called the "pearl of the Caribbean," that has usually been the cen er of the storm. The United States, which has used direct military force in Cuba 10 times, has always had a special interest ;here. Thomas Jefferson, who initiated the seizure of Florida from Spain, considered Cuba an appendage of the peninsula. In Jefferson's view, Cuba was the most interesting addition which would ever be made to our system. Jefferson and other president s afterward attempted without success to buy Cuba from Spain. Finally, the United States took Cuba, as well as Puerto Rico and other Spanish territories in the Pacific after it won the Spanish-American War in 1898. After an easy and decisive victory over Spain, the United States was recognized as a major military and naval power, ready to project its influence around the world. The war also marked the beginning of almost constant US involvement in Cuba, sewing the seeds of future trouble. MR. SMITH: Some of our problems with Cuba predate Castro and most of Cuba's problems with us predate Castro. We've had differences of opinion from the beginning. NARRATOR: A leading authority on Cuba, Wayne Smith, had a 25-year foreign service career, including six years in Cuba. He served in Havana during the last years of US-Cuban diplomatic relations and later, as head of the US Interests Section in Havana during the Carter and Reagan administrations. MR. SMITH: Cuba is a small country directly athwart our backdoor and, thus, any American government would wish to control events in Cuba with the idea of protecting our backdoor, the strategic entrances to the Gulf of Mexico and any Cuban government, of course, would wish to avoid that control. That's the basic ingredient in the relationship and it is, to some extent, at any rate, an adversarial one, no matter what government you have in Cuba. NARRATOR: By 1960, Fidel Castro consolidated power and built a Soviet-allied communist nation at bitter odds with the United States. Manuel Davis had been a Cuban diplomat for 20 years. MR. DAVIS: You are talking about policy of hostility toward Cuba for 30 years. In many instances, the United States has been doing so and been intervening in Cuba to overthrow and to undercut the regime established 30 years ago that has the popular support of our -- of my country. NARRATOR: Constantine Menges served as an advisor on Latin American affairs in the Reagan administration. DR. CONSTANTINE MENGES: The Castro regime is a direct threat because of its process of armed subversion in alliance with the Soviet Union and its other allies, not only in Latin America, bu also against Free World countries in Africa, the Middle East and, o some extent, even in South Asia. NARRATOR: How did this hostility evolve? How did it come to pass that the United States and this tiny island nation of Cuba, just 90 miles from our shores, now consider themselves mutual enemies? After the Spanish-American War of 1898, the United States reigned supreme in the Caribbean. Puerto Rico was annexed, bu Cuba, which has fought long, bloody wars for freedom from Spain, was given its independence, a partial independence. The United States did not withdraw its troops until the Platt Amendment., giving he United States the right o intervene in Cuban affairs and to establish a naval base at Guantanamo Bay, was incorporated into Cuba's new constitution in 1902. Officially, Cuba remained a protectorate of the United States for 32 years. Then Franklin D. Roosevelt initiated the "Good Neighbor Policy" in Latin America and finally voided the Platt Amendment. The United States remained, however, in Guantanamo, under a new agreement which leased he 45-square mile area indefinitely or until both countries agreed on a change of status. MR. DAVIS: This just one of the rare case in history in which an agreement is signed by two parties and none of hem has the right to abrogate it when it's considered ap- -- appropriate. Rear Admiral EUGENE CARROLL, JR. (US Navy, Ret.): It's the only military facility we have anyplace in he world that is completely surrounded by hostile territory and hostile people. Everyplace else in the world, we're welcome guests. In Guantanamo we maintain our position by armed might . It's the oldest, continuously occupied US military facility anyplace in he world outside of the United States of America. INTERVIEWER: You've been there, you've been stationed there. Could you describe what I.'s like for a military person? ADM. CARROLL: It brings back very happy memories for me, which are sharply contrasted now by the situation today. When I was there, we were part of the community. The gates were open, the Cubans came in, we went out into their community and were welcome guests. INTERVIEWER: That was before Castro. ADM. CARROLL: That was before Castro, B.C. Today, A.C., it's quite a different thing. It's a closed garrison defended by active military forces and minefields. You have cabin fever. People are closed in and have absolutely no release from this sense of being isolated. NARRATOR: Since the break in relations with Cuba in 1961, Guantanamo has been completely isolated from the rest of .he island, surrounded by a US-placed minefield, the largest in the Western world. The main gate has been closed for 30 years. The 47 Cubans still allowed to work there enter the northeast gate each day. Foreign nations have the right of passage through US-held waters at the mouth of the bay to reach Cuban ports further inland. Ships belonging to the Soviet Union, Cuba's principal trading backer, often ply the waters of Guantanamo naval base. ADM. CARROLL: In peacetime, I provides a nearly ideal training base. It's a deepwater harbor, very easily accessible from the training areas nearby. There are two airfields, which support air operations for the carriers. And -- And so, for training, it's a very handy and efficient situation. In military terms, as far as operations are concerned, there's no potential whatever. Cuba's territory comes right to the edge of the air- field on one side or right down to the harbor on the other side and we couldn't hold it against even artillery fire coming in from the hills that surround the base. NARRATOR: Guantanamo is one small part of a US basing network that surrounds much of the Caribbean Basin. In the Caribbean, there are, besides Guantanamo, six US bases in Puerto Rico, another in Antigua, and numerous small military stations sprinkled around the area. Together there are about 6500 military personnel on Caribbean islands and another 7000 afloat on US war- ships that frequent he area. There are dozens of other US bases and tens of thousands of troops in Panama, Honduras and along the southern and southeastern coasts of the United States. The value of the Guantanamo base to the United States is widely disputed. MR. DAVIS: The res- -- The military resources available to the United States makes of no importance, in my opinion, Guantanamo as any strategic post in the Caribbean. So, I think that Guantanamo could be easily solved if there is a change in the attitude of the United States. I think that more than any other thing is -- still this is there because it's a way for the United States to show Cuba that it still -- it hasn't recognized Cuba. DR. MENGES: My sense is hat it is better to have the base than not have it, in terms of the overall position of the United States in the Caribbean. NARRATOR: The US Departments of State and Defense decline to participate in this program, but Dr. Menges worked in bo h the CIA and the National Security Council. DR. MENGES: I believe it is, under current circumstances of Castro's international aggression, important to re ain the base at Guantanamo. I think it has a -- an important symbolic and political reassuring effect on the people of Cuba. NARRATOR: Rep. Charles Bennett, of Florida, is the chairman of the House Seapowers Subcommittee. REP. CHARLES BENNETT: Well, it serves a very important base purpose because it's right there in the midst of the Caribbean and it has strengths, military strengths which are good for us to have there. If they would ever have to move, undoubtedly we'd. have to do something on Viegues or one of the other islands in the area, Puerto Rico. We'd have to do something to -- to put a similar base in that general area. NARRATOR: Rear Admiral Eugene Carroll served for 37 years in the Navy and once commanded the aircraft carrier USS Midway. ADM. CARROLL: Guantanamo Bay is only one part of our complex of military bases that ring the Caribbean. We recognize that, I case of a war in the Caribbean, we're going to have to evacuate that base. For that reason, it doesn't: add to our ability to defend the Panama Canal or the shipping in the Caribbean. MR. SMITH: The base is not worth a good deal strategically. I mean, after all, it is a training facility and we could get along without it very easily. I don't say it's valueless, but it's of marginal value. NARRATOR: Castro has always claimed that US military withdrawal from Guantanamo is one of the principal requirements for improving relations between Cuba and the United States. According to the 1934 treaty, the United States pays a small yearly rental fee of 4085, but Castro cashed only the first check since coming to power, saving the others to display to visitors. After 30 years of hostility toward the Castro regime, the United States sill attempts to isolate Cuba politically and economically, but that isolation has broken down. Most Latin American countries now have relations with Cuba and about 300,000 tourists from Canada and Western Europe flock to inexpensive Cuban resorts every year. The Unit ed Sates forbids its citizens to vacation in Cuba and only a trickle of academics and professionals are allowed to visit. An economic and trade blockade has continued since 1962, leaving Cuba extremely dependent. on the Soviet Union, which extend 3- to 5 billion a year in aid. MR. SMITH: Oh, US policy toward Castro, I think without any question, has been a failure. The Castro government has been there now for 30 years, it isn't going to go away. Isn't it time that we faced up to that reality and isn't it time that we began to discuss these problems in a -- in a -- in a rationale way? After all, if we deal with he Soviet Union, why can't we deal with Cuba? The Cubans are open to it . They say they're ready to meet us halfway, sit down at the table and discuss these issues. What could we possibly lose by doing that.? NARRATOR: Others do not put much faith in negotiation and better relations with Cuba. DR. MENGES: I think it's important to remember the history of efforts to normalize relations with Cuba. Three American presidents, Nixon, Ford and Carter, over a period of nearly six years, engaged in an extensive series of dialogues with Castro from 1973 to 1979. When those talks began, there were no Cuban combat personnel in officially recognized units abroad. By the time hose talks ended, Cuba had sent more than 70,000 combat personnel to prop up pro-Soviet. regimes. NARRATOR: Rep. Charles Bennett, who has served 41 years in the House of Representatives, over a decade longer than Castro has been in power, is second in seniority in all of Congress. He first visited Cuba as a young man working on a banana boat. He thinks the United States should try to improve relations with Cuba. REP. BENNETT: Certainly you ought to discuss things with people. They're not the threat to us that Russia is and we do have normal relations with Russia. We have normal relations with China. And -- So, I -- I would think that we ought to look toward that as a possibility. I believe Cuba would be helped a lot if we were on -- on a friend- -- on a more friendly basis and I think our country would be safer and more secure if we had a more friendly arrangement. NARRATOR: From the Cuban point. of view, he most serious problem is the threat of a US invasion. The failed US-sponsored Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961 shaped Cuban perceptions and actions ever since. Heightened tensions during the Reagan administration prompted Cuba to train and arm 1 � million civilians to fight off an invasion. MR. DAVIS: The threat of an invasion from the United States has been permanent in these 30 years. That hasn't changed a bit, still is a possibility and that, of course, is one of the most concerns of Cuba and something that we would like to avoid. NARRATOR: As the Cubans see it, they face a similar situation as would the United States if its northern neighbor Canada were hostile and had 5 � billion people and 30 million soldiers. The Cubans claim that US training activities at Guantanamo could be used to prepare the way for an invasion. MR. DAVIS: They have Guantanamo Base and many of those exercises have been part of it in -- have been the landing of troops in Guantanamo, or exercise near of Oriente, the western the eastern provinces of Cuba, and flights close to -- to our territory and so on. And the same in Viegues in Puerto Rico, I mean the exercise of -- of the .type that they will pursue if a decision to invade Cuba happened. And you never know, particularly when you -- you don't have a normal relationship and a -- and a fluid communication with -- with -- with the United Sates. NARRATOR: There are many opinions on what the United States should do about Guantanamo. Constantine Menges conditions a change of status not on a change of government but in Cuba, but a change in its activities. MR. MENGES: I think that any change in the status of Guantanamo should be linked to the cessation by the Castro dictatorship of its aggression internationally through armed subversion and -- and not promises, not pieces o paper, not winks and nods, but real cessation of that activity. MR. SMITH: I think in the final analysis, you lose more by insisting on remaining indefinitely and imposing your presence on a country that really doesn't want it. The base is not worth a good deal in strategic terms and I think we lose far more, in terms of -- of our public image, our image abroad and the cost of maintaining ourselves in a hostile environment than we gain from the small strategic worth. INTERVIEWER: Where do you think there might. be troops in a communis. country? MAN-IN-THE-STREET: Probably he Soviet Union. INTERVIEWER: Would you believe Cuba? SAME MAN-IN-THE-STREET: Possibly, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Have you heard of Guantanamo? WOMAN-IN-THE-STREET: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: That's in Cuba. MAN-IN-THE-STREET: That's correct, yeah, slipped my mind for a minute, but I remembered it. INTERVIEWER: You've never been there? MAN-IN-THE-STREET: Yeah, I've been there once. INTERVIEWER: You've been in Guantanamo? SAME MAN-IN-THE-STREET: But we all on he ship considered that part of the US really. NARRATOR: While questioning people in the street, we found them only timely aware of the US military presence in Cuba. A more scientific survey, conducted in 1988 by Potomac Associates, found that only four Americans in ten were aware of the presence of the US naval base a Guantanamo. Another interesting finding is that US policymakers and the Cuban-American community both consider the lack of diplomatic relations as our most important problem with Cuba. Perhaps it's time for a new era in US-Cuban relations. ADM. La ROCQUE: Yes, I think it is time for a change in our attitude towards Cuba. Most Americans are fully aware that the Soviets do indeed have some military forces in Cuba, but it comes as a surprise to most Americans to find out that we, too, maintain a naval force in Cuba. The Cubans are wonderful people, friends of America and I think it would be in our interest today and the interest of he Cubans if he Soviets were to take their troops out of Cuba and we take our forces out. of Cuba. In that way, I think we could greatly improve our relations with the Cubans, moving to full diplomatic relations in a normal sense. Well, I hope you've liked the show today. Please drop us a note here at the Center for Defense Information. For "AMERICA'S DEFENSE MONITOR," I'm Gene La Rocque. [End of broadcast.] CONDITION OF USE: Credit "AMERICA'S DEFENSE MONITOR" (Center for Defense Information). <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. 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