-Caveat Lector- > URL for this article: http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/lane.htm > > Join our email list at http://emperors-clothes.com/f.htm. Receive > articles from Emperor's Clothes Website, www.tenc.net > > We encourage readers to reprint and re-post any Emperor's Clothes > article. Please quote articles exactly and include the original URL > and name of author(s). > > ======================================= > EMPEROR'S CLOTHES INTERVIEWS UNOCAL OIL > [Posted 9 July 2002] > ======================================= > > NOTE: Barry Lane is UNOCAL's manager for public relations. This > interview was conducted by telephone at around noon July 8th. > > *** > > Jared Israel: Mr. Lane, this is Jared Israel calling from the > Website, Emperor's Clothes. We deal with foreign policy and we're > examining the widespread argument that you guys are behind everything > that's happened in Central Asia. > > Barry Lane: And I'm trying to figure out how you get to that! [Laughs > boisterously.] > > Jared Israel: Well, there are two key points. One of which we're > already documenting, which is that Zalmay Khalilzad was a consultant > for you - > > Barry Lane: Well, he was and he wasn't. > > Jared Israel: My understanding is he never worked directly for you. > Is that right? > > Barry Lane: Yep. He worked for Cambridge Energy Research Associates. > CERA. C-E-R-A. That's Daniel Yergin's outfit. Like the RAND > Corporation - > > Jared Israel: They're owned by RAND? > > Barry Lane: No, no they're *like* RAND. They're a consultant. And > Khalilzad worked for them. Because he was quite a noted expert on > Afghanistan you know, so he did consulting for us. > > Jared Israel: My understanding is that he's a door-opener because > he's very influential. Is that correct? > > Barry Lane: Well, yes. > > Jared Israel: Is it commonplace for companies dealing with an area to > have people working for them that have influence in the area. I mean > - > > Barry Lane: You know, that's how Henry Kissinger makes his living > today. > > Jared Israel: The argument is then made by people that therefore what > he is doing now he is doing as your agent or the agent of the oil > industry in general. > > Barry Lane: Well, I'm trying to figure out how you get there because > we officially - and this was way back in in December 1998 - withdrew > from the Centgas consortium and never looked back. > > Jared Israel: Is any other oil company now hot and panting for a > pipeline through there? > > Barry Lane: I haven't heard of anybody else except Turkmenistan, > Pakistan and Afghanistan. Turkmenistan would want it so it would have > a place to sell its gas and Pakistan would want it so it would have a > gas supply for its markets *if* they do need a supply anymore. > > Jared Israel: And of course Afghanistan wants the fees. It occurred > to me that it's in the interest of Afghanistan to say UNOCAL is still > interested because that makes the project seem more attractive and > *they* need it as a cash cow. So you guys are not secretly planning > to go back? > > Barry Lane: No. No we've got enough other things on our plate that > are placing demands on our capital and our management's time and > basically we've kind of focused on many other areas. Plenty of other > things on our plate and that's not one of them. We've said that over > and over again. > > Jared Israel: So you're not going to surprise us tomorrow? The > so-called proof that's presented that you are still involved is a May > 13th BBC article in which the source is Alim Razim, Afghanistan's > minister for Mines and Industries. And the BBC quote is: > > "Mr Razim said US energy company Unocal was the 'lead company' among > those that would build the pipeline, which would bring 30bn cubic > meters of Turkmen gas to market annually." > > Barry Lane: Well if you read the actual words that are said, and we > don't know if the quotes are direct - watch the tenses very closely - > you'll notice he said "Unocal *was* the lead" you know - > > Jared Israel: You're right. It's not a direct quote. The only thing > they're quoting are the words, "lead company." The other thing that > is being asserted everywhere is that Hamid Karzai, the current head > of the Afghan 'government' once worked for you. > > Barry Lane: Yeah. Yeah, well that's probably one of the great urban > legends. He never worked for us. > > Jared Israel: He didn't work for somebody else who worked for you? > > Barry Lane: No. No, not him. He was never a consultant, never an > employee. We've exhaustively searched through all our records to try > and find out where the hell that came from. > > Jared Israel: Le Monde. Dec. 6th, 2001. > > Barry Lane: Le Monde. Le Monde was the one who wrote it first and you > know what's strange about it is I've asked reporters over and over > again, go ask Mr. Karzai himself. And nobody has. > > Jared Israel: Well the argument is that there is something sinister > and therefore you would both deny it anyway. But my argument is in > order to posit that this relationship existed in the first place you > have to have some evidence - something - but all le Monde has is > their own assertion. They just say he was a consultant. They say, "At > one time." Not even a date. And no source. And then all these writers > repeat this as if Le Monde's assertion is enough to counter your > denial. I mean, you can't use the fact that somebody denies something > to prove it's true. > > Barry Lane: Hey, it makes a great story. But I gotta tell you, our > CEO was asked this kind of question about the project at the annual > meeting, in May, and he was absolutely emphatic that we have no > interest, no plans. I'm not sure what part of that is confusing for > people. > > Jared Israel: Would you have any reason to feel ashamed if you wanted > to go and build a pipeline there. > > Barry Lane: No because number one we thought it was a very good > project economically. It still may be a good project, although we > don't think so. > > Jared Israel: For what reason? > > Barry Lane: Well we proposed this back in 1995 - that's a fact that a > lot of people fail to note. Long before anybody knew how to spell > Taliban. But in that intervening time, as it got delayed and delayed > and delayed because of conditions in Afghanistan - and we knew it > would take a long time - Pakistan developed other sources for gas. So > the market in Pakistan for the gas was not nearly so attractive as it > was in 1995. > > Jared Israel: And you don't know of any other oil company which - > > Barry Lane: The only one that I've heard was even remotely mentioned > was GAZPROM, the Russian company. That's the only oil company name > I've seen that's associated with this at all. > > Jared Israel: Not a US company. What about MOBIL? EXXON? > > Barry Lane: I couldn't speak for them but I haven't heard them > associated with it. I just read the literature, you know. GAZPROM is > the only one I've even heard that was halfway associated with it. > > Jared Israel: You know, I did a lot of research on Zalmay Khalilzad. > This Khalilzad is a stratospheric power. > > Barry Lane: He sure is. He was a top man with the RAND Corporation. > > Jared Israel: He was the director of strategy planning for the > Pentagon. > > Barry Lane: Yep. > > Jared Israel: He seems to be close to Brzezinski. He went to the > State Department from the Council on Foreign Relations. He was a key > strategist behind the attack on Iraq, which he himself proposed in a > policy paper in 1988. And he was a top strategist concerning the > Afghan war in the 1980s. The idea that his activities are determined > by a gig as an oil consultant is - > > Barry Lane: It's ludicrous. > > Jared Israel: It's a complete misrepresentation of the relation of > forces. You might be *his* instrument, but he is not *your* > instrument. > > Barry Lane: Look, we didn't have a lot of experience in that area so > we sought out people who did. Who knew - in fact we also had a former > Ambassador to Pakistan as a consultant. > > Jared Israel: Who was that? > > Barry Lane: I can't remember his name. A US Ambassador. Because he > knew the culture and so on. > > Jared Israel: It's the same thing that a real estate developer does > when he wants to build in an area where there is conflict; he hires > influential people from that area. > > Barry Lane: That's exactly the relationship we had. He was an advisor > to us. > > Jared Israel: So even terming him a 'consultant' is a > mis-description? > > Barry Lane: Well, he sure wasn't there, like every day, punching a > clock. [Laughs.] And as for Mr. Karzai, no. Never. > > Jared Israel: If Karzai had worked for you would you regret it? > > Barry Lane: Heck, no. Why? We don't care. But he didn't. > > Jared Israel: The thing that's interesting to me about Le Monde is, > why don't they report that you have denied that Karzai was a > consultant? Isn't that news? Their story is denied by a primary > source - that is definitely news. The failure to report it tells me > they have no evidence because if they did have any evidence surely > they would have a great article - report your denial and then show > their evidence. > > Barry Lane: Well they know we denied it. We sent them a letter saying > exactly that pure and simple right after their publication. > > Jared Israel: OK, I guess that's it. Thank you for your time, Mr. > Lane. > > Barry Lane: All right. Sure thing. > > Join our email list at http://emperors-clothes.com/f.htm. > > ========================= > FOOTNOTES & FURTHER READING: > ========================= > > For an overview of the Afghan war, see > 'Washington Plots, Moscow Crawls, Kabul Burns' > by Jared Israel at > http://emperors-clothes.com/misc/burns.htm > > Also check 'Further Reading' at the end of 'THE EMPIRE ISN'T IN > AFGHANISTAN FOR THE OIL!,' by Jared Israel at > http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/oil-1.htm > > 1) For UNOCAL's statements see > > 1a) http://www.unocal.com/uclnews/98news/082198.htm > 1b) http://www.unocal.com/uclnews/98news/centgas.htm > 1c) http://www.unocal.com/uclnews/99news/021699.htm > > 2) 'Ex-National Security Chief Brzezinski admits: Afghan Islamism Was > Made in Washington,' - magazine interview with Brzezinski with > comments by Jared Israel. Can be read at > http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/brz.htm > > 3) Here are some articles helpful for understanding what's been done > to Afghanistan: > > A) 'Washington's Backing of Afghan Terrorists: Deliberate Policy' > Article from "Washington Post' with introductory note from 'Emperor's > Clothes'. Can be read at http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/anatomy.htm > > > B) 'Bush & the Media Cover up the Jihad Schoolbook Scandal,' > by Jared Israel can be read at > http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/jihad.htm > > C) 'Taliban Camps U.S. bombed in Afghanistan Were Built by NATO' > Documentation from the 'N.Y. Times'. Combined U.S. and Saudi aid to > Afghan-based terrorism totaled $6 billion or more. Can be read at > http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/camps.htm > > D) 'CIA worked with Pakistan to create Taliban' > From 'Times of India.' Can be read at > http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/pak.htm > > E) 'Osama bin Laden: Made In USA' > Excerpt from article on U.S. bombing of a pill factory in Sudan in > August 1998. Argues that bin Laden was and still may be a CIA asset. > Can be read at > http://www.emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/madein.htm > > F) 'Excerpts from News Reports - Bin Laden in the Balkans' evidence > that bin Laden aided or is aiding the U.S.-sponsored forces in > Bosnia, Kosovo and Macedonia. Can be read at > http://emperors-clothes.com/news/binl.htm > > Join our email list at http://emperors-clothes.com/f.htm. Receive > about one article/day. > > Click here to email a link to this article to a friend. Or copy and > paste the long URL below to your browser: > > mailto:ENTER FRIEND'S EMAIL ADDRESS HERE?subject=Here's an > interesting article from emperors-clothes.com&body=I just read an > article which I thought you would find interesting. Here's the > address: http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/lane.htm > > ======================================= > Emperor's Clothes Urgently Needs Your Help! > > Note: Some computers have trouble making a donation via our (very) > secure server. If so, please call us at 617 916-1705 and contribute > over the phone. Thanks! > ======================================= > > In order for Emperor's Clothes to continue publishing we urgently > need your help. > > Many of you have written thanking us for our exclusive interviews, > original articles exposing official crimes and media lies, and > analytical articles. We get much satisfaction from your emails. > > Since September 11 our readership has greatly increased. We now > transfer over 1 gigabyte of data a day. But our income has not kept > up. We are way behind on rent, Internet expenses, electricity and > phones, which we use for interviews. > > We do not charge for articles, and we don't accept advertising > because we know it's annoying. But we do have to pay bills and in > order to continue publishing, we urgently need the help of all our > friends. > > Please send whatever contributions you can! $20, $50, $100, $500, > $1000 or more. Every penny will be used to get articles to more > people. > > You can make a donation using at > https:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&no_shipping=1 > > You can make a credit card donation by going to our secure server at > http://emperors-clothes.com/howyour.html#donate > > Or Mail a check to Emperor's Clothes, P.O. Box 610-321, Newton, MA > 02461-0321. 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