On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 11:27:15PM +0100, Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker wrote: > > george> I have a very naieve(sp?) question... actually a "failure to > george> understand"... > george> > george> I've been using X since '87, with TWM until '96, with CTWM > george> since. > george> > george> I start X with "xinit" and have my .xinitrc start up the apps > george> that I want started (xterms, xcalendars, dclock, gkrellm, etc) > george> and the last thing that runs is "ctwm", not in the background. > george> > george> I've moved this scenario across all the Unix machines I've > george> used since '87. > > This is the classic scenario that all of us have used or still use (I > do the same as you do, except I don't have ctwm as the last thing, > since I occasionally test other window managers, and would like to do > so without being logged out).
I've found the best, why would I switch? :) > george> Enter the desktops (CDE, KDE, GNOME, etc.) > george> > george> Initially, I thought they were like souped-up window managers. > george> But that can't be because GNOME can utilize different window > george> managers. And from what Richard posted, it can use CTWM. > george> > george> I'm confused as to how this works together... > george> What does a Desktop Manager like GNOME provide if it is using > george> CTWM as the window manager? > > GNOME and KDE provide things that are beyond most window managers, > such as desktop icons that are used to start stuff (or look at, you > can have an icon that launches a file manager looking at your home > directory), a panel with all kind of info grouped in it, and a menu > that's independent of the window manager (and honestly is a copy of > the Windows start button system, not much else). They also serve as > session managers. Hmm, I thought ctwm had icons that would trigger a launch of something but I just never used it. Maybe not... > So basically, GNOME and KDE can be seen as a grouping of components, > where the window manager is one component. Gnome uses sawfish by > default, and I'm pretty sure sawfish can also be used as an > independent window manager (or at least could once upon a time). KDE > uses it's own window manager... > > george> Can I set up my environment for GNOME w/ CTWM so that it looks > george> just like my "raw" setup now? No GNOME taskbar, no GNOME > george> menus, just my CTWM tabular workspace manager, tabular window > george> manager, and my crude windows. > > Absolutely, and the answer is much simpler than you might imagine: > don't use GNOME. I see. So I wasn't so far off in my thinking after all, eh? I thought GNOME provided some type of inter-task communication or something like that... > george> How would I fire this up? Do I add something to my .xinitrc > george> file that "starts GNOME", or do I use something like "startx" > george> that will start GNOME but then run CTWM as the window manager > george> and skip all the other GUI GNOME stuffs? > > As far as I know, all it takes is having the same .xinitrc as you've > had all along. Now, it's perfectly possible that on your system, > things have been twisted in such a way that $HOME/.xinitrc doesn't > take precedence (something I view as contrary to tradition, but YMMV), > and you'll need to figure out what you have to do to go around it. > > george> If any of you would do me the favor of helping me understand > george> this situation, I'd appreciate it. The reason it seems > george> important is because when I try to run some GNOME apps with > george> things as I have them now, they complain about some GNOME-ish > george> stuff not being available. And when I posted a > george> question/comment about it, it seemed that no one else is > george> having such trouble. So I think the issue is w/ how I've got > george> my environment set up rather than w/ CTWM... > > It may be that you've hardcoded certain things that you shouldn't. > It's impossible for me to figure out what unless you tell me (or > anyone of us, I'm definitely not the one to look for all answers when > it comes to GNOME) exactly what those GNOME applications complain > about, or what your setup looks like. > > Also, you need to remember that certain programs are built to run > under GNOME specifically, for example by expecting to dock into the > GNOME panel or things like that... Understood. I guess the next time I'm trying to run something that chokes I'll just have to post the error and see if anyone can guide me. Thanks for the detailed response, Richard! -- A billion seconds ago Harry Truman was president. A billion minutes ago was just after the time of Christ. A billion hours ago man had not yet walked on earth. A billion dollars ago was late yesterday afternoon at the U.S. Treasury.
