At 2:42 PM -0700 7/25/00, sunder wrote: >Agent Bronson wrote: >> >> The 3rd amendment argument is a losing argument. The purpose of that >> amendment is to prevent repeating something that happened during the >> Revolutionary War. It pertains to soldiers shacking up in civilian's >> houses, not to a civilian law-enforcement organization hooking a computer >> up to your ISP's network. > >I don't think so. The analogy is very clear. There isn't any extra >ammendment or law that guarantees any extra rights to the Press. The 1st >is good enough. > >Yes, the 3rd ammendment isn't really about the soldiers spying on you, >it's about them eating up your resources. But a box at an ISP sniffing >traffic IS eating up the ISP's resources. In the least it's eating up >electricity and bandwith to report back and be controlled. We all know, though, that the Third is an Amendment which is rarely seen in court, and which doesn't have the scholarship/panache/sex appeal of the more commonly-cited amendments. The Fourth, for example, should also be used to challenge Carnivore and CALEA in general. "Secure in one's papers and possessions," or whatever the exact wording may be, certainly means that one doesn't have cameras, microphones, carnivores, etc. parked amongst one's papers for remote turning-on! There's a body of scholarship about "takings," e.g., the government taking private property by declaring it wetlands, or protected, etc. And there is eminent domain law...curiously appropriate if they are becoming co-tenants at some domain! I know the "1984" citations are often overdone, but this whole situation is just precisely what Winston Smith faced in '1984," with a camera mounted in his flat so that surveillance could be done when the government decided it wanted to. No doubt done with full legal authority, by their standards. If I ran an ISP, I'd say to the government: "Fine, I'll comply with this court order. I have no choice. You can move your equipment in and tell me exactly what you're hooking up to. Oh, and you'll compensate me for any downtime, any labor on my part, and any other costs. And when the court order runs its course, you'll remove your equipment and your staff. And if I find your equipment is looking at any other lines, any other files, besides the ones the court order refers to, I'll take appropriate measures, immediately. As for you parking your equipment here, this is MY PROPERTY. While I may have to comply with a court-ordered wiretap, I don't have to make you my co-tenant." --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
