On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 02:34:24PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 12:36:08AM -0300, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:50:00 +1000 > > Zenaan Harkness <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You can't debate the principles of faith with logic - well of course you > > > can, but after a very short while it becomes utterly pointless > > > > the jesus literary character never existed. That's a matter of history, > > not faith. > > > That's a nominally a fair point, but I'll raise you one Jesus scroll :) > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jesus_Scroll > The Jesus Scroll is a best-selling book[1] first published in 1972 and > written by Australian author Donovan Joyce. A forerunner to some of the ideas > later investigated in The Da Vinci Code,[2][3] Joyce's book made the claim > that Jesus of Nazareth may have actually died aged 80 at Masada[4] near the > Dead Sea, site of the last stand made by Jewish zealot rebels against the > Roman Empire, after the Fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second > Temple. > > Joyce, an Australian journalist, claimed to have seen a scroll stolen > from the Masada excavations. He wrote that it was one of fifteen scrolls > discovered during the dig there. His book states that the stolen > autobiographical scroll was signed Yeshua ben Ya’akob ben Gennesareth, who > described himself as eighty years old and added that he was the last of the > rightful kings of Israel. The name when translated into English became Jesus > of Gennesareth, son of Jacob.[5] Joyce identifies the author as Jesus of > Nazareth. Joyce's book further suggests that Jesus may have survived the > crucifixion, was present during the Roman siege of Masada during the Jewish > Revolt of 66-74 AD, and that he had married Mary Magdalene and fathered a > child with her. > > Joyce claimed that he attempted to visit Masada in 1964 during the > archaeological excavation but was prevented by Yigael Yadin. Joyce further > claimed that an anonymous and corrupt archaeologist, "Dr. Grosset", asked him > to help smuggle the 'Jesus Scroll' out of Israel that had been discovered > during that dig.[6] Joyce says in his book that the scroll was sneaked aboard > an airplane by Dr. Grosset, who then most likely took it to Russia to strike > a deal with Soviet leaders.[6] > > Joyce proposed controversial theories concerning the historicity of > Jesus that caused outrage among many Christians, and for which he received > numerous death threats.[1] > > > [Just the first chapter has the goods on this one, I hope to scan it in one > day.] > > > > AND he was written about circa A.D. 161: > > https://www.mesacc.edu/~thoqh49081/handouts/suetonius.html > Suetonius, another Roman historian, lived A.D. 75-160. It has been > noted that Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) to be a Roman rebel active > in the days of Claudius, who reigned A.D. 41-54 > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ > The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his > execution by Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome in > his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[1] > > > Notwithstanding, your modern "historical reporting standards will never be > properly met, and you get to choose the standard, so for me this is a loosing > battle, thus "pointless". > > > > > > As to the political nature of the totalitarian jew-kristianty > > theocracy...well, that's politics, not faith. So 'faith' (whatever you > > mean by it) never entered the picture. > > > Faith did enter the picture, the very moment I began to speak in relation to > faith ("the Hebrews hung him on a cross to die").
Yes, you could choose to take a losing "historical" point of view, and further insist that "the literary historical" view is the only one you are willing to discuss, but dat right there be a little existentialist/ stubborn/ bone headed, and lazy. Faith is a different dynamic, a different place of thought/ viewing/ beholding. There just ain't no point now goin' and debatin all logical like, if you want any reality to your faith now... ... in case we missed that memo now y'all ;) > > anyway, look up "banking in babylon" and learn the fact that so called > > 'fractional reserve banking' is one of the oldest scams in history > > Indeed.
