At 09:17 AM 2/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>"We are here faced with a case in which the taxpayer did assert his
>privilege in response to specific questions in the tax return form, but did
>so on such a wholesale basis as to deny the IRS any useful financial or tax
>information. Other circuits, faced with similar wholesale assertions of the
>privilege against self-incrimination, have concluded that a tax return form
>which contains no information from which tax liability can be calculated
>does not constitute a tax return within the meaning of the IRS laws. Once
>these courts determine that the taxpayer has filed no return, simple
>application of the Sullivan precedent, which states that the Fifth
>Amendment will never justify a complete failure to file a return,
>invalidates the Fifth Amendment defense. E. g., United States v. Irwin, 561
>F.2d 198, 201 (10th Cir. 1977), cert. denied, 434 U.S. 1012, 98 S.Ct. 725,
>54 L.Ed.2d 755 (1978); United States v. Silkman, 543 F.2d 1218, 1219-20
>(8th Cir. 1976) (per curiam), cert. denied, 4!
>31!
>   U.S. 919, 97 S.Ct. 2185, 53 L.Ed.2d 230 (1977); United States v. Daly,
>481 F.2d 28, 30 (8th Cir.) (per curiam), cert. denied, 414 U.S. 1064, 94
>S.Ct. 571, 38 L.Ed.2d 469 (1973)."
>
>
>If I follow this, a tax return in which the filer does not disclose
>financial information specifically on the basis of self-incrimination
>doctrine has filed a document that does not qualify to be considered a tax
>return, and since he has not filed a tax return he has invalidated his
>fifth amendment defense.
>
>The difference between this line of reasoning, and the abrogation of the
>fifth amendment rights in regard to taxation, is difficult to see.

Yes it is.  However, if mean-green's posting on Politech has some basis 
then perhaps there is hope.

>>In Swallow v. United States, 325 F.2d 9F (10th Cir. 1963), cert. denied, 
>>377 U.S. 951 (1964), the court held, "It is now well settled that the 
>>income tax laws are not unconstitutional under the due process clause of 
>>the Fifth Amendment..."
>>
>>"The Supreme Court has stated that the privilege against 
>>self-incrimination, if validly exercised, is an absolute defense to a 
>>section 7203 prosecution for failure to file an income tax return. Garner 
>>v. United States, supra, 424 U.S. at 662-63, 96 S.Ct. at 1186-1187. The 
>>Court has also held, however, that the privilege does not justify an 
>>outright refusal to file any income tax return at all. United States v. 
>>Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259, 263, 47 S.Ct. 607, 71 L.Ed. 1037 (1927). 
>>Furthermore, an objection may properly be raised only in response to 
>>specific questions asked in the return. Id. See Garner v. United States, 
>>501 F.2d 228, 239 n.18 (9th Cir. 1974) (en banc), aff'd Garner v. United 
>>States, supra, 424 U.S. 648, 96 S.Ct. 1178, 47 L.Ed.2d 370.
>>
>>"We are here faced with a case in which the taxpayer did assert his 
>>privilege in response to specific questions in the tax return form, but 
>>did so on such a wholesale basis as to deny the IRS any useful financial 
>>or tax information. Other circuits, faced with similar wholesale 
>>assertions of the privilege against self-incrimination, have concluded 
>>that a tax return form which contains no information from which tax 
>>liability can be calculated does not constitute a tax return within the 
>>meaning of the IRS laws. Once these courts determine that the taxpayer 
>>has filed no return, simple application of the Sullivan precedent, which 
>>states that the Fifth Amendment will never justify a complete failure to 
>>file a return, invalidates the Fifth Amendment defense. E. g., United 
>>States v. Irwin, 561 F.2d 198, 201 (10th Cir. 1977), cert. denied, 434 
>>U.S. 1012, 98 S.Ct. 725, 54 L.Ed.2d 755 (1978); United States v. Silkman, 
>>543 F.2d 1218, 1219-20 (8th Cir. 1976) (per curiam), cert. denied, 4! 31! 
>>U.S. 919, 97 S.Ct. 2185, 53 L.Ed.2d 230 (1977); United States v. Daly, 
>>481 F.2d 28, 30 (8th Cir.) (per curiam), cert. denied, 414 U.S. 1064, 94 
>>S.Ct. 571, 38 L.Ed.2d 469 (1973)."
>>
>>So, its apparent that even though you must file a return which contains 
>>some information from which tax liability can be calculated you can still 
>>assert your 5th Amendment rights by refusing to provide certain, even 
>>substantial, information, as long as its so noted. There seems to be no 
>>required method of denoting your method of assertion and it appears it 
>>can be quite non-obvious to the IRS data entry people and still pass 
>>muster. So, unless you are audited the IRS will be unaware of the 5th 
>>Amendment assertion and if they do audit you can bring it to their 
>>attention without fear of prosecution for filing a false return. Be 
>>prepared however for the IRS to prosecute you for filing a frivolous 
>>return, a misdemeanor, as a means of harassment.

steve

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