x-mailing-list: daf-disc...@shemayisrael.com
(Please include header and footer when redistributing this material.)
_________________________________________________________________
THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST
brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
d...@dafyomi.co.il
[REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL]
________________________________________________________________
Re: Chagigah 004: Angel of Death Making a Mistake
Gershon Lewis asked:
>>How is it possible that the angel of death, who is a shaliach of Hashem
could make a mistake-and we're speaking about a major mistake.<<
The Kollel replied:
>>1) Clearly there were higher Heavenly forces that wanted him, and caused
him, to make this mistake.
2) The crucial question here is how is it possible that someone can die
without "Mishpat," justice? In other words, why did Hashem want the Mal'ach
ha'Maves to make this terrible mistake that seems to contradict the laws of
justice?
3) I found one of the Mefarshim who discusses this a little. This is on the
Rif in Berachos, page 34b in the pages of the Rif. Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah
there (DH Patach) cites the Gemara in Shabbos (55b) where the conclusion is
that it is possible sometimes that a person dies without having sinned.
This is itself a difficult concept to understand, but Rabeinu Yonah does
add to this that even though a person might die even though he performed no
transgressions, nevertheless all the ways of Hashem are "Mishpat" and
Hashem knows why He does what He does.
4) The Chidushei Anshei Shem, printed in the margin, asks on Rabeinu Yonah
from our Gemara in Chagigah 4b, where we learn "Yesh Nispeh b'Lo Mishpat"
-- some people die without Mishpat. He appears to answer this question by
saying that it might occasionally happen that someone dies without Mishpat.
With the vast majority of people, though, everything works according to
justice, but there are sometimes unusual circumstances where other factors
are involved in why people die.
5) Obviously, this is a very difficult concept to understand, but I would
like to suggest a possible approach. Sometimes it might happen that a
person does not deserve to die because of his transgressions, but Hashem
sees that it would be better for this person if he would die earlier.
Possibly Hashem sees that if the person would live he would be tempted to
do certain sins, or possibly he would witness very upsetting events
happening around him. As human beings, we would not be able to say if it is
best for this person to live or not, but Hashem knows better than us and
decreed that this person's time has come. So this person did not die
according to the laws of justice, but still Hashem knows why He does what
He does, as Rabeinu Yonah says.<<
---
Bentzion Meltzer comments:
There are precedents to be found in Shmos for points 4 and 5 and to the
question in general. When Moshe questioned Hashem about the children being
cemented into the buildings of the walls, Hashem told him to pick one who
would live. Moshe did so and this child was MIcha who took the plaque
(with Hashems name and 'Arise O Ox' on it) from the Nile where Moshe had
just caused the iron sarcophogus of Yoseph to float, threw it into the
cauldren of molten gold and brought forth the golden calf. Even though the
child at one point was innocent and pure, only Hshem knows the outcome of
our lives and when it is the proper time for us to pass away.
** One could argue that Moshe brought untold calamity and destruction to
the Jewish people becasue of his questioning of Hashem's judgement and his
own misplaced sense of mercy. That the Aigel and all of the horror that
came with it came to be because Moshe did not trust Hashems judgement.
How does Moshe get a 'free ride' for that incredible lack of faith? **
Another explanation goes to the Ball Shem Tov's Sod of Transmigration where
a person in a later life might have to give up his possessions or even his
life to mitigate a transgretion of an earlier transmigration in order to
cleanse the Neshama.
Bentzion Meltzer
----------------------------------------------
The Kollel replies:
1) It appears to me that Moshe Rabeinu did not in fact get a "free ride"
for what happened with Michah, and I will attempt to show sources for this.
2) First, the Gemara (Sanhedrin 111a) tells us that Moshe was punished for
complaining about the suffering that Bnei Yisrael underwent in Egypt.
Hashem said to Moshe that he would see what He would do to Pharoah but he
would not see the war against the 31 kings in Eretz Yisrael, which his
successor Yehoshua conducted.
3) However, the above Gemara does not say that he received this punishment
for saving Michah, but rather it was a general punishment for being
"Meharher Achar Midosav" -- for questioning the ways of Hashem.
4) We can understand a bit more why Moshe did not receive this punishment
explicitly for saving Michah if we look at Rashi in Sanhedrin 101b (DH
Nitmachmech). Rashi writes that after Moshe complained to Hashem about the
children being cemented into the building, Hashem said to him that He was
destroying the bad weeds from the people but He added: "If you wish, you
may try this out and remove one of them from the building," and in response
Moshe saved Michah. We learn from Rashi that Moshe did not actually go
against Hashem's command, because he did receive permission to take the
risk and to save Michah. However, Moshe still did not possess the degree of
faith that he should have had on his level, because he should not have
wanted to carry out this experiment.
5) I suggest that the reason why Hashem gave Moshe a choice on this matter
was because it was so much against the nature of Moshe to see this
suffering and do nothing about it. Moshe was the compassionate shepherd who
was chosen to be the leader of the Bnei Yisrael; his mercy on the sheep was
a reflection of his mercy on every single member of his people. Therefore,
Hashem did not demand from Moshe that he should witness this suferring of
the children without being able to do anything about it, but He did
nevertheless expect Moshe to believe that what was happening was all for
the good of the people.
6) I would also like to suggest a Chidush and say that even though he
received permission from Hashem to do this, he still did not get a "free
ride" for saving Michah. My source is Bava Basra 109b, which tells us that
Yehonasan, who worshippped Avodah Zarah, was in reality the son of Gershom
the son of Moshe. Even though the verse tells us that he was the son of
Menasheh, it should really read Moshe instead of Menasheh, but it is
written as Menasheh because the latter was famous for his terrible sins of
Avodah Zarah, so someone who worships idols is associated with Menasheh.
It therefore may be possible that the fact that Moshe suffered this
disaster in his family, that his grandson worshipped Avodah Zarah, shows us
that he did not actually get a free ride for his mistake of saving Michah.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
>>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<<
The *D*AFYOMI *A*DVANCEMENT *F*ORUM, brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf
Write to us at d...@dafyomi.co.il or visit us at http://www.dafyomi.co.il
Tel/Fax(US): 646-820-3315; Fax(Isr): (02) 591-6024; Tel(Isr): (02) 651-5004
_______________________________________________
Daf-discuss mailing list
Daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il
http://mail.shemayisrael.co.il/mailman/listinfo/daf-discuss_shemayisrael.co.il
