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Temurah 015: Rule of Shaul
David Goldman asked:
>>Why do some meforshim give a lengthy time to the rule of Shaul before he
died when we have explicit information that he ruled only a total of 3
years? The lengthier times suggested by some moforshim (1 Shmuel 13:1)
would mean that Shaul ruled at the time Shilo was destroyed (14 years
before Dovid was anointed), yet there is not a single mention of Shmuel
having made Shaul king when Eli was still alive and Shilo still existed.<<
The Kollel replied:
>>I do not know to which specific Meforshim you refer, however the Ralbag
and Rabeinu Yeshaya (the Rid) both explain this Pasuk differently than the
Seder Olam. The Ralbag says that the Pasuk means that the following events
took place two years after Shaul became king. In this case we can assume
that Shaul remained king for longer than two years. The Rid says that even
though we only count two years for Shaul as the Seder Olam learns from this
Pasuk, this is because we do not count the years when he acted as king
after Shmuel secretly anointed Dovid. According to both these explanations
it would seem that Shaul’s rule is extended into years later than he ruled
according to the Seder Olam, and not earlier.<<
David Goldman asked:
>>Thank you. Certain meforshim say that it is inconceivable that so many
things happened while Shaul was king for such a short period (one year
before Dovid was anointed and then approximately 2 more afterwards). Within
that 2 year period he served Shaul for a while, was then persecuted by
Shaul, and then spent several months in Ziklag before moving to Chevron
after Shaul died. But how do these meforshim get to 17 years or 20 years?
The destruction of Shilo happened about 14 years before Dovid was anointed,
and there are no sources indicating Shaul was king while Shilo existed and
Eli was alive.<<
The Kollel replied:
>>As I wrote, I am not aware of any Meforshim who say that Shaul was king
at such an early stage, I would like to look into this if you could please
let me know which Meforshim you are referring to.<<
---
David Goldman responds:
Thanks. I was looking at the Meam Loez on 1 Shmuel 13:1 and the sources
mentioned in Seder Haolam and Rabbi Rosenberg's Nach with commentary from
Rishonim on that posuk (Abarbanel, Radak, Ralbag).
----------------------------------------------
The Kollel replies:
I have checked in the Yalkut Me’am Loeiz as well as in the Radak, Ralbag
and Abarbanel, but I do not see that anyone is suggesting that Shaul’s rule
started earlier than at the point Rashi (Temurah 15a) says, i.e. eleven
years after Eli died. The question is for how long he ruled afterwards.
Those who wish to extend his rule extend it to a later date, not by
pre-dating the start of his rule. I do not have access to Rabbi Rosenberg’s
Nach, so I cannot comment on what he writes.
Dov Freedman
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