I guess many will get the joke on the (undecidable) halting problem -- still, 
hackish or partial solutions can be attempted and will answer sometimes.

Coming back on the main topic: industry vs academia

Being myself a mid-product, neither fully academic nor practical mind, i have a 
mitigated opinion. 

In the case of AEG, we are in presence of high quality formal research for a 
security problem. I understand why Sean is annoyed by a couple of disturbing 
claims that everyone already identified. Exploitation is much more than 
input-of-death generation (else we could say a fuzzer is almost a AEG system, 
which clearly it is not)

Now, let me ask you: are the best security industry experts capable of such a 
formal development? Wouldn't their attempt be comparable to the (inverse) 
attempts of Brumley & al at stepping into the exploit world, in terms of 
short-comings and clumsy claims?

I don't think the folks at CMU wanted to fool anyone, they were simply 
under-educated in the area of exploitation. Still I find the article they wrote 
very valuable (just as Sean's thesis is -- maybe more comparison with his work 
would have been welcome, both works are more academic than anything else after 
all). I do not see a reason to trash academia or even the authors themselves 
for having over-estimated the impact of their practical contribution.

If industry or a academia is seeking for more respect or collaboration 
potential from the other side, we should all avoid giving head butts to each 
other and educate / be educated on what the other is better at. 

My 2c,
Julien





On Dec 11, 2010, at 19:00, Chris Eagle <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 12/11/2010 1:22 PM, Fergie wrote:
>> Something I used to tell my troops when I was in the Army ...  Don't sit
>> back in your area and bitch about something.  Anyone can bitch.  If you
>> bring a problem to light, bring a potential solution as well...
>> 
>> I don't mean that as harsh as it sounds when I read it back.  I just mean to
>> say that all of you smart folks who identify these problems can surely posit
>> a solution to them....
> 
> So, there's this little problem I have where given a program to analyze,
> all I want to know is whether it ever exits.  Now having brought the
> problem to light, I am afraid I have no solution, perhaps you can help?
> 
> Sometimes the "solution" is to point out that there is no solution, or
> that any potential solution is orders of magnitude more difficult than
> one might expect.
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