Hi Devdatta, Would be great to have you on board!
Yes, we really need a GTFS-ouputting system here.. it doesn't exist yet so there's nothing at present to stick to. Here's the PMPML data in GTFS format, latest copy that's from 2009 or 2011 or something: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8sY5vZfk1W5Z1dZa2dmTlY4aHc The main data file in GTFS is around 6 lakh lines long for PMPML. That too with all arbitrarily calculated trip times (to the last second :P) that don't reflect reality. And for human purposes it's practically a binary. It can't be updated; it needs to be over-written. When you need to change a program, you need something that'll edit the source code, not the binary. Unfortunately in PMPML's case we've only inherited an old binary. And that's exactly what we're trying to work on here : A system that'll output GTFS. We need to bring PMPML's data upto a level of standardisation that it becomes possible to create GTFS feed from it, and yet it needs to remain linked to PMPML as an original, self-sufficient structure that they can own, refer to, and edit any time *by themselves*. What had happened so far was that the people working on the GTFS completely de-linked it away, so PMPML themselves no longer had any access to their own data. One huge factor in all this was the translation from Marathi to English and deleting off of all Marathi references. The original data was completely in Marathi. The people maintaining the data are going to be doing so in Marathi. So we had completely de-linked sets of data on the input and the output side and that has been a major blocker. GTFS unfortunately doesn't have a bilingual feature, so that's one place we're going to have to go beyond it : any system that maintains the data must do so in both languages. And the past GTFS creation was done in a copyrighted way so there's no way to get that system back now without coughing up another fortune. That's not going to happen anytime soon as we're having a deliberate underfunding of PMPML going on right now, with desperately needed funds being diverted to 100 times more costly projects like metro. If you know something that will work over the internet or without needing installation, so that staff at PMPML can edit it, in Marathi language, without needing to be engaged in a full-fledged contract with an IT company, then please advise. I've written notes on my analysis of GTFS format and how we could go about this, here: https://datameet.hackpad.com/Public-Transport-GTFS-Format-Analysis-soh7vdzRsW5 So if you can explore how to make a database of this and have a system of creating, editing or dropping routes... One core requirement here is what is referred to as "child forms" or one-to-many relationship in forms. Basically, you fill in a stop on the route. Then you click on an "Add More" button to add another stop. Then you can drag the stops up and down to re-order them. So we need a web-form system that enables that : Edit a route >> you get a listing of the stops. You can add new stops or drop existing ones. Entry should be in search-as-you-type mode.. and with google spreadsheet's data validation I've got that feature. And the core data of course is the stops; they'll be like the inventory / stocks list, and the routes will simply be like different purchase orders or similar listings of inventory items. While I've seen this kind of feature at many places, I haven't been able to find a way of using it here (been searching a lot!), and I'm not a from-scratch PHP/SQL/.NET etc programmer. I know Javascript and can work with XML and JSON, and with the excel format I've been able to use formulas that render all the data in nested XML/JSON. That's actually how the present pmpml.org site's system is working.. I churned out a nested XML and the website team used it. Give the website (www.pmpml.org) a try.. search for "Pune Station", and you'll know why we need bus stop rationalisation ;) My role at present is in helping to convert the data that PMPML has to a form that can be read by a program AND be edited by a human (techies often miss the latter part!). We're going with whatever's best suited, the administration is co-operating fully, so hop on! (sorry if this reply doesn't seem well-structured.. ) -- Cheers, Nikhil +91-966-583-1250 Pune, India Self-designed learner at Swaraj University <http://www.swarajuniversity.org> http://nikhilsheth.blogspot.in On 7/4/15, Devdatta Tengshe <devda...@tengshe.in> wrote: > Hi Nikhil, > > I'll strongly suggest that we stay on GTFS as a standard. > > There are many applications to work with it, since it's an open standard. > I'm in pune and i can help you with this. > > Regards, > Dev > On 04-Jul-2015 10:50 am, "Nikhil VJ" <nikhil...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Friends, >> >> Some of you whom I've put in Bcc had signed up on the Datameet Pune >> interest form. While Craig is working on how to organize meetups >> (found a venue, planning dates etc), I'd like to share a collaborative >> task with you. >> >> Here's something that some volunteer groups (ImproveMyCity, Pravasi >> Manch, Pimpri-Chinchwad Citizens Forum) are upto. IMC is building a >> website for PMPML (Pune's bus system), and we're helping PMPML put the >> bus routes info in a standardized common structure that can then be >> used for properly informing the public. We've had many roadblocks >> previously with this process and are now much wiser off it. >> >> There's an easy but repetitive task that we need to hammer out : we >> have a standardized list of bus stops in English with unique code and >> lat-long, which was formed and freely shared by an org called ITDP. >> And we have a separate longer list of bus stop names in Marathi which >> we'd gotten from an earlier unorganized dataset. We need to fill in >> the Marathi counterparts of the English stop names. >> >> I've put this all on this google spreadsheet: >> >> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ppFJeb7Dnj6-1yvniH2Q6exQFzK6fM0wsZNn4XZIvkI/edit?usp=sharing >> >> There are just under 1800 stops to bilingual-ize this way. >> >> So what you have to do: >> Play match-the-following, or type some Marathi words in. Simple! >> Please write back to me if you're interested in doing a set of rows >> for half an hour or so today, and I will add you to the doc as an >> editor. >> >> Target completion time: Sunday 5th July EOD. But if you can give some >> time today before 4pm that would be great, as we're meeting PMPML's >> CMD at that time to discuss on all this. He's recently taken charge >> and is very passionate about making all the information transparent >> and accessible to the public. >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> Why this is important : >> If you see the routes sheets in the same google spreadsheet, we're >> going to populate it with existing route info prepared by ITDP (a few >> years old), and have PMPML staff edit and update the route information >> using this core list of bus stops. When adding a new stop in a route, >> it's got to be linked to other stop info like stopcode, lat-long. >> Building up this way, with properly cross-linked information instead >> of arbitrary entries, will then enable all the information management >> features one needs from a modern public transport service. >> >> Some background: >> These exercises had been done in the past, but the technologies used, >> the core data like this, etc wasn't properly shared or passed on, and >> PMPML themselves weren't involved and so never had the standardized >> stuff in their systems. A GTFS (that google maps uses) feed was >> created, but that's basically not human-manageable.. the main datafile >> is around 6 lakh lines long. >> >> So now we want to do things differently. A very important component >> here is OPEN data, and transparency at the input end. This data format >> that we've commonly agreed upon is both human and machine readable, >> and once set up, will be a lot easier to maintain. PMPML will have >> constant direct access to the system and they will be able to edit the >> data themselves as soon as there are changes from their end. >> >> It would be great to have a full-on database-powered system.. I am >> clueless on that but knew a few excel hacks so am doing it this way. >> If YOU have the skills to drum something up then welcome aboard! >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> Coming back, breaking it down to simple parts : The task for right now >> is just to fill Marathi names for each bus stop. >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ppFJeb7Dnj6-1yvniH2Q6exQFzK6fM0wsZNn4XZIvkI/edit?usp=sharing >> >> -- >> -- >> Cheers, >> Nikhil >> +91-966-583-1250 >> Pune, India >> Self-designed learner at Swaraj University < >> http://www.swarajuniversity.org> >> http://nikhilsheth.blogspot.in >> >> -- >> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. 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