> On 18 Nov 2025, at 09:43, Edward Shryane <[email protected]> wrote: > [..] > Here is an example for the RIPE NCC itself, adding a reg-nr: attribute : > > organisation: ORG-RIEN1-RIPE > org-name: Reseaux IP Europeens Network Coordination Centre (RIPE NCC) > country: NL > org-type: LIR > descr: RIPE NCC Operations > address: P.O. Box 10096 > address: 1001 EB > address: Amsterdam > address: NETHERLANDS > reg-nr: 40539632 # added registration number
> [..] > The country: code is NL, so the registry is the KvK : Go to > https://www.kvk.nl/en/search/ and enter "40539632". TLDR of below: - reg-nr needs a reg-location with details of where that number belongs to - reg-nr might be 'natural person' to indicate that situation - then no 'reg-nr' indicates an unmaintained/not-updated object - next to reg-nr - even with those details shady "companies" will remain shady as long as it is acceptable to register them as such. But, that requires one knowing that the "KVK" is the commercial registry, if you are not Dutch one will not know this. Without the context of the registry URL that number is pretty futile to list similar to having: 8<---- organisation: ORG-PLI2-RIPE org-name: Private Layer INC country: PA org-type: LIR address: Panama City address: 00000 address: Panama address: PANAMA ---->8 Which as a good old example used to be a Swiss POBox, for a "Panamanian" company; right... such useless information for an entity that operates worldwide but likely has nothing in that postal office building. Read: if law enforcement has to serve a court order, one cannot, and the real people behind it stay shielded, likely far away from Panama themselves. And what is the point of having information if it is futile except for finding accidental coincidences when multiple things register at the same email/location etc etc. Noting that the front page of https://privatelayer.com/ still reads "Secure Swiss Hosting".... not Panama... it is only the other side of the world ;) And of course, as the NCC is very well aware, PA, SC and such countries are a lot of fun. Apparently totally and completely following the rules though. Then again dummy and shell corporations are the joy of anything shady. At least IPv4 space has run out much faster with the help of those constructions. But there are GOOD things in this proposal, as legit companies do not have to hide and would have valid public details. And for those it can be beneficial to list their details, it also makes it easy to see they are more legit. As Gert is in this thread (CC'd also just in case), I'll use another example for SpaceNet AG, fortunately Germany requires an Impressum page (https://www.space.net/impressum/) thus easy to find and is public. For their case, including just "reg-nr: 136055" would be almost useless information, without the context of knowing that one has to look at the "Amtsgericht München", though that is not the business registry, it is the Gewerbeamt: https://stadt.muenchen.de/service/en-GB/info/gewerbeamt/10423771/ As such, IMHO, one really has to include extra information about the context of such number. thus either: 8<------ reg-nr: 136055 reg-country: DE reg-url: https://stadt.muenchen.de/service/en-GB/info/gewerbeamt/10423771/ ------>8 Which still would give you the phone number to contact for information at least. Though URLs change, thus maybe "reg-org: Germany, Munchen, Gewerbeamt" or similar might be a better format. also, for individuals/persons, and to indicate that the information is not just missing, but is established, possibly have a 'reg-nr: natural person' option? That makes it clear that the NCC indicates this is a natural person, not an organisation of which the object is not updated yet. In the end, as the above shows though, as long as RIPE NCC allows LIR registrations in 'funny' countries, it all does not matter, and organisations can be as intransparent as one can be. At least, one can then score that as "LIR is registered in a fun country, we only see bad traffic, lets rate limit or just drop that" and other such techniques... The reg-* info will thus be another indicator for that. Just really sucks for the business that really exist in those countries that fall into the same holes :( Regards, Jeroen ----- To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription options, please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/db-wg.ripe.net/ As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account with the email matching your subscription before you can change your settings. More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/
