On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:03:31AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>
> > And now it occurs in cdebootstrap (again, happened before and went
> > away, now it's back),
>
> So, if it happens again, why didn't you report it against cdebootstrap
> to begin with? This is the package having the bug, not base-files.
>
> Please, feel free to reopen this report and reassign to whatever
> package is failing to properly bootstrap the system.
>
> > and then the next bootstrap tool and again and again.
>
> Not necessarily. It has been clearly established that base-files uses
> chown with Debian system users. It should be clear by now that base-passwd
> should be configured first by any bootstrapping tool.
>
> > The sane solution is to fix the problem at the source, not in the
> > various bootstrap tools. Especially when you don't communicate the
> > need for a fix to other tools and only fix one.
>
> Well, if you discover a bug in cdebootstrap and file a bug against
> base-files, I think it's you who don't communicate the need for a fix.
>
> I can't be responsible for every bootstrapping tool out there.
But in the bugreport you noticed the problem, figured out its an
ordering problem that every bootstrap program has and then just told
debootstrap about it and nobody else. So yes, you are basically
repsonsible. And that is the problem of not fixing this at the source,
you get many bootstrap programs that need fixing.
> For the record, what base-files does is not new at all. If you read
> carefully the bug report I quoted before, you will see that last time
> this broke it was triggered by a subtle change in dpkg ordering.
>
> Before that, base-passwd and base-files were installed in the same
> dpkg run, and as you rightly point out, this was a matter of luck that
> it worked. But this was never base-files fault.
And that is exactly what happened now. Some other package update
changed the ordering in dpkg here so cdebootstrap failed.
Wether it's base-files fault or not we had to agree to disagree. And I
don't realy care. Base-passwd added a fix to make passwd available
earlier so it is more of a core functionality. That fixed the problem
from the other end.
> > And the bug hits all the right arguments:
> >
> > - base-passwd does not provide /etc/passwd when unpacked, it therefor
> > can't be core functionality => base-files should Depends: base-passwd.
>
> Sorry, I don't buy that line of reasoning. If base-passwd can't be
> essential then it should lose its essential flag, but then every
> package using chown in their postinst should have a Depends: base-passwd,
> not just base-files.
>
> There may be zillions of packages using chown in their postinst, so this
> is not reasonable at all.
The difference is your package is essential. That makes the difference
during bootstrapping. It's a problem of bootstraping order.
I'm going to suggest a policy change to clarify on what core
functionality means for essential packages normally and for the
special case of essential packages depending on other essential
apckages during bootstrap. Bootstrap is a special case and in the
bugreport you said you wanted a plan to deal with bootstrap ordering.
So I'm going to do that.
> > [...]
> > the quick fix of adding "Depends: base-passwd".
>
> I don't agree with your comparison "fix bootstrap -> difficult",
> "add an artificial dependency to base-files -> easy".
>
> Configuring base-passwd first then base-files is also very quick. If
> you read the bug I quoted before the patch is usually a one-liner,
> which is also easy enough.
>
> The only reason this was not a "quick fix" last time is that people
> insisted on killing the messenger (base-files) instead of fixing what
> was really broken (debootstrap).
>
> Thanks.
And again: fix debootstrap and ALL THE OTHER BOOTSTRAP TOOLS. So a one
liner in a single package turns into many lines in several packages
which most not even knowing that they need fixing.
As this discussion shows cdeboostrap was never fixed. I bet neither
was crossbootstrap or that liveCD bootstrap tool. It's the not knowing
that is the biggest problem.
MfG
Goswin
