Le vendredi 06 novembre 2020 à 04:22:15-0800, Felix Lechner a écrit :
> Hi Pierre-Elliott,
> 
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 2:40 AM Pierre-Elliott Bécue <p...@debian.org> wrote:
> >
> > I could not help but have a concern reading your reply. It feels to me
> > that you could have the intent to move the *production* lintian site out
> > of Debian's machines. Of course I could understand that a *test* version
> > of lintian.debian.org would be hosted somewhere else. But I (and I'm
> > probably not alone) would have a really hard time understanding or
> > accepting that the production version moved outside of debian.org and on
> > a non-controlled Debian machine.
> >
> > Lintian is debian-centric, and its checks have influence on many parts
> > of the infra. To me it needs to stay in Debian for the production part.
> >
> > I hope you understand that.
> 
> I do not.
> 
> Like so many communications in Debian recently, I actually find your
> tone inappropriate for a technical project.

A technical project consisting of people who may have opinions, even
some based on non-very-technical aspects.

> What is the purpose of your message? Do you hope to guilt-trip me into
> using DSA infrastructure? Had we not had friendly interactions in the
> past, I might think your note came out of a mafia movie.

Because I made an assumption on your intents and tried to tell you
something you don't want to hear, which is that it should stay in Debian
infra? Come on, you should accept the idea that other people has
different opinions than yours and have a right to state these. The
"it's not technical" argument is not a valid answer.

> Perhaps you are making me a proposal I cannot refuse?

I'm stating my opinion, and you'll have to deal with the fact that many
people in the project do that. The fact that you are working on a
project does not mean others can't express concerns and raise their
voice if they think the decisions you seem to be willing to take are
bad. I'm not coercing you and the way you represent it is your sole
interpretation, which is a bit scary.

> My planned improvements are driven solely by technical concerns. (Your
> message mentions none.)

I don't have to mention technical concerns to have a right to feel
ill-at-ease with the idea of seeing lintian.debian.org disappear in
favour of an externally hosted service. But actually, "it's
Debian-centric and used by core components, so it's better having it
in our infrastructure" also is a technical concern.

> I am still working on the new website and am not really ready to
> explain my proposed changes.

This is what I call a test version.

> For now, it should be sufficient to say that DSA is unable to deliver
> on several key aspects of my envisioned changes. For example, DSA is
> unable to automatically install newly released versions of Lintian, or
> its prerequisites.

DSA delivers machines, what you do of these is your call. See
nm.debian.org, which is auto-deployed when we release on master et al.

> That alone led to a string of extraordinarily frequent, error-prone
> and entirely unnecessary interactions on rt.debian.org. A prominent
> DSA member's response: "It's easier that way, for you and for us." At
> some point, DSA also told me I made changes to their systems too
> frequently. Nice solution!
>
> At some point, I tried to share my vision of a real-time system that
> can browse tags online. The response: "There is a trend toward static
> pages at Debian." 

Surely, that excludes tracker.debian.org, wiki.debian.org,
nm.debian.org, ddpo.debian.org, udd.debian.org, …

> As far as I can tell, DSA and I live on two
> different planets—which, to be fair, is not an unusual feeling from my
> perspective in California's Silicon Valley.

I can't see how and why DSA would forbid you to have a new website set
in production on lintian.debian.org, and if they do, that's probably
something worth a discussion on debian-devel to have things explained
and understood, don't you think?

> In any event, I do not control the domain lintian.d.o, so whatever I
> am working on will remain a test version unless people decide it works
> better. That should be the goal. I do not understand how your message
> did anything to make Lintian, or Debian, better.

Just because you feel hurt by the fact someone tries to tell you you
should reconsider an idea doesn't mean their opinion or suggestion is
moot. I'm sorry if you're feeling hurt, but I stand my point. As soon as
your new site is working, I'd rather try to have it set in prod on
lintian.debian.org than making central elements point to an external
component. And I'd be happy to help and support you that way.

That'd at least allow others to take care of it if one day you feel
tired of the project, without having to restart everything from scratch.

-- 
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528  F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.

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