Hi Simon, Simon Pilkington <[email protected]> writes:
> On 21/11/2025 23:46, Nicholas D Steeves wrote: > > Hi Nicholas, > >> The problem as I see it is upstream keeps breaking existing user configs >> (see https://bugs.debian.org/1099802), and backups that aren't painless >> and automatic have a tendency to not be updated... > > As a system administrator I'd prefer it if maintainer scripts didn't create > potentially junk files on every upgrade, especially since there is no way to > opt-out of their execution. I've successfully self-managed my configs since I > started using borgmatic (years ago), and don't recall a case when an > intervention was needed because backups stopped working. It sounds like you were and are using the core, stable features that didn't change, and I understand the desire for an escape hatch for someone who doesn't want any config-handling niceties. How do you manage all the other .dpkg-dist and .dpkg-old files, by the way? [snip definitions of options] > If a user ignores NEWS, then an automatically upgraded config file (as in a) > won't help because the user won't know about it. b) and c) are both > problematic > (c more so) because bugs can and do happen. As someone who tracks sid or testing, you are part of the noble class of users who defend those of Debian stable+1 from this class of "bugs can and do happen". If nobody tests config file migration then Debian stable users have no real-world coverage for this feature. > Moreover, automatic config upgrade > has already proved clunky as per #1121514. How else do you realistically interpret "preliminary support" (see changelog)? Release early, release often, there will be bugs, get feedback, compromise, and make it better. Would you please review the update[s] to #1121514 before your next reply to this UX one? Andrey mentioned a feature that I realised could be used to provide a fifth option, and I'll think you'll like it! :) > Therefore I prefer d). Not ignoring NEWS is the user's responsibility, as is > making sure critical services (such as backup) are still working after a > software update. Noted. Since Debian is the Universal Operating System, it seems like we would have to continue to do this in order to accommodate users who use the new fifth option (at #1121514). That said, following NEWS is too hard for the users I support, and I don't believe that it's necessary to gatekeep functioning backups to users who are capable of navigating breaking changes when there is upstream support for migrating a deprecated or obsolete (and broken) configuration to a working one. The worst case scenario here is 1. User dist-upgrades oldstable to stable, doesn't understand NEWS. 2. Does a bunch of important irreplaceable work. 3. Catastrophic hardware failure occurs. 4. Backups are out-of-date. I believe we can do better. Regards, Nicholas
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