Sven Bartscher wrote: > As brought up in this[0] thread, systemd-shim became incompatible with > the latest versions of systemd and the alternative dependency was > removed. > > While this is something I can totally understand, I don't think that > systemd should migrate to testing without the possibility to use > systemd-shim instead. > > My reasoning about this is as follows: > Testing should be as close to a state in which it can be released as > possible (I don't have a citation for that and just remember that I did > read that somewhere, so please correct me if I'm wrong).
That's an accurate description of testing. systemd-shim isn't currently in a releasable state, but that's entirely on systemd-shim to fix. (The current round of incompatibility appears fixed in unstable, along with the inclusion of cgmanager, though there are apparently still a number of bugs in cgmanager; see https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00957.html .) Along the same lines, systemd also currently has a pair of RC bugs on it, though both have patches that just need uploading. I feel certain that'll happen long before it affects the jessie release. Testing propagation does take installability into account, but systemd-shim is installable in testing; it just doesn't serve its intended purpose of supporting systemd-less graphical desktop systems, hence why it has an RC bug that the current version in unstable should address once it propagates. Based on the RC bug policy for releasing testing as stable, either systemd-shim will have that bug fixed by the time a stable release rolls around, or if something goes horribly wrong then it'll be removed from testing, and either way testing will then be releasable. > Further we are not planning to release jessie without systemd-shim (at > least I hope so, again please correct me if I'm wrong). I would assume the systemd-shim maintainers would prefer not to see jessie released without systemd-shim, hence why they've uploaded a new version fixing its RC bug (along with the new upload of cgmanager). However, systemd-shim isn't a distro-wide release goal; it's a single package with a well-known alternative available. I don't see any particular reason why systemd-shim needs any more special treatment than other packages; either it'll be part of the release or it won't. At the moment, it seems quite likely that it'll be part of the release. We need to decouple the success of systemd and systemd-shim. Each one needs to succeed or fail on its own merits. The systemd maintainers provided a months-long delay for systemd-shim to catch up to 208 (which is not the current upstream version), but I certainly hope future versions of systemd do not incur further delays waiting for alternative init systems to catch up. - Josh Triplett -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140727224209.GA26687@thin