On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 06:47:42PM +0200, Javier Fern�ndez-Sanguino Pe�a wrote: > On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 12:37:24PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote: > > > > You may want to check w.d.o/french/intl/french That's in french only, but I > > guess you should get the essence as latin-based native speaker. If not, I > > may consider translating this even if it's somehow very specific to our > > team. > > Well, I can also speak french but, as a matter of fact, I'm already aware > of it. Check w.d.o/intl/spanish/coordinacion.es.html, which I developed > around the same scripts you used for french. Unfortunately, since only I > was updating it, it has grown rather old (i.e. the information there is not > up-to-date)
Err. We almost don't use the tool you copied over anymore. It requested to maintain a DB manually, which was very painful. Only the DDP documents use it now, because we have no other solution yet. But I guess you really should recheck the french index page (http://www.debian.org/intl/french/index.fr.html) and http://www.de.debian.org/devel/website/translating for how we do for the rest. > > What I want you to get from this page is the organization we cam with to > > handle efficiently the translations in debian. That's based on a loosely > > split of the efforts in several sub-project (web, ddtp, po-debconf), and at > > the same time in several efforts (i18n, even if our problem are far more > > simple than asian people, translation, review). All this done with classical > > mail title, so that each people can do exactly what he wants in the project > > without spliting the ML. > > Yes, I also think that's quite important. And I even included a similar > approach at > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-feedback.en.html (you will > see that ITT - Intend to Translate is there too) Yes, I saw that. That's great. But it does not try to tackle with the logistic involved in translation updates when they get out of date. Check http://www.nongnu.org/po4a/#graphical_summary for what I mean. > > My personal opinion is that the french team is not anymore in an i18n > > process, thanks to our predecessor work, and becomes not even in a pure l10n > > process. Getting new translation is not my [main] goal anymore. I want to > > make sure that the stuff already translated is correct (review, very > > important since the written french language is hard even for native > > speakers) and uptodate (need of specific tools to detect when a translation > > gets outofdate, warn the assigned translator, and ask for an NMU to the > > other if it's not enough ;works for webpages, still to do for other > > materials). > > Checking wether or not translations are up to date is a very important > thing to be able to do automatically, that's why I developed the > translation-check module for the Debian website (three years ago!) But I > have not been able to dedicate time to make a similar thing for DDP stuff > (and that's important and your team has a system that could be modified to > be useful for w.d.o/doc) And this time, getting the cvs diff between the versions of the original will not be enough because of their size, among other reasons. Again, I think that po4a is what we need here. > You may also say a word about l10n-check, a script developped in intern to > > catch to most common errors in the common format. po4a is also worst > > mentionning I guess (quite logical, that's my baby :). Its meant to ease the > > maintainance of documentation translation by using po files as main > > translation container. That way, when the original gets modified, the update > > is veeeery eased. And getting stats about translations is also a new > > feature. > > This project may not be mature enough for a wide use, but is definitivly > > promising in my mind. > > > Where are those tools? I don't see them in > http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/french/international/french/?cvsroot=webwml or > in the DDP CVS... deb http://nico.bertol.free.fr/debian bertol/fr/ There are well documented with man pages, but there is no web pages for them. > > Ho, and we do have a shared dictionnary under w.d.o/intl/french/dico. That's > > a simple set of wml macro allowing to make a kind of encyclopedia. English > > words are explained in details, and some possible translation are proposed, > > with the arguments pro and against each possibility. This is quite new and > > not that much words are documented, but it's growing quite quick. > > That's nice. The Spanish team uses both a generic glossary (ORCA: > http://quark.fe.up.pt/cgi-bin/orca/glosario) and a Debian-specific one > (http://www.debian.org/intl/spanish/notas.es.html) but that's maintained by > hand. The nice thing about ORCA is that it provides an HTML frontend easy > to use but also generates dict files for use with 'dict'. You might want to > talk to Jaime Villate (also a DD) if you are interested in getting the > source code for it. I guess I'll take one hour to make a dict output of our DDeD using wml slices one day. When is another question. Thanks, Mt. -- Quand on a du bl� plein ses �tables, on prend vite des r�flexes de veau. Faire l'aumone au bon mis�rable plut�t qu'de payer des impots. Distribuer de jolis cartables et des stylos neufs au marmots, et traiter les profs d'incapables en laissant l'�cole prendre l'eau. -- Les malpolis
