On 06/08/17 10:50, Enrico Zini wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 06, 2017 at 10:25:01AM -0400, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> Has there been any previous discussion of completing steps in the NM
>> process at real-world events?
> [...]
> I disagree with your description of the P&P part of the NM process, to
> the point of finding it offensive. Please do not describe it worse than
> it has been for ages, you make a great disservice to everyone involved.

I'm sorry if you felt that way, it was not my intention to disparage the
existing process, only to start a discussion about whether parts of the
process could be replicated, in parallel, in real-world meetings/events.

> A license workshop would not be significant for the NM process, where we
> assume a person, already at the point of applying, is ready to have an
> account and use it responsibly.
> I consider a multi-choice exam a terrible idea, since interacting with
> an Application Manager is more about actually having a conversation,
> rather than proving one's knowledge.
> An exam at an event would actually be harder than answering an email at
> home, since at home one would be able to relax, take time, sip one's
> favourite beverage and search on the internet.

If applicants are ready to have an account then they should hopefully
not find it too much harder though.

Once again, I'm sorry the multi-choice example is crude, it was more of
a starting point for discussion, not a suggestion that the existing
process should be thrown out the window and replaced with multi-choice.

Some people do actually perform better in exam scenarios and some people
perform better with other types of test.  It could be helpful to offer
some of these possibilities if there are volunteers willing to help
administer them and if similar outcomes can be achieved.

> Finally, I noticed a tendency at real-world events to advocate people
> just because one finds them pleasant to talk to. I would rather limit
> this kind of bias rather than encourage it.

It is more complicated than that.  Real world events do provide a lot of
bandwidth.  People are having a drink and they casually ask "have you
thought about becoming a developer?" and somebody replies "I never
really thought about it, can you tell me more?".  This discussion might
not start at all if there was never any face to face contact.

Of course it would be silly to suggest that two beers later that person
has an account and starts uploading.

However, with the bandwidth that exists at real-world events, maybe
parts of the process could be complemented or enhanced.

From the perspective of volunteers, e.g. the AM, it is not just a
question of extra bandwidth.  When people attend DebConf or another
event, we are in a frame of mind where we are largely focussed on Debian
in that time and place and some volunteers may feel that is the best way
to have discussions with applicants.



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